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	<title>Comments on: Rape and Prejudice</title>
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	<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/</link>
	<description>The sky is high. The Czar is far.</description>
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		<title>By: Dear God, Seth Rogan, Rape is Rape - a post by Natalia Antonova &#171; Nickel for a Thought: Cultural Critique &#38; &#8220;Other&#8221; Intellectual Adventures</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-20784</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dear God, Seth Rogan, Rape is Rape - a post by Natalia Antonova &#171; Nickel for a Thought: Cultural Critique &#38; &#8220;Other&#8221; Intellectual Adventures]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-20784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] raped, as opposed to knowing it. If we believe that rape is only something that can happen to a good girl (unless she’s wearing a tight top, haw haw), or that rape in prisons should only ever be boiled [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] raped, as opposed to knowing it. If we believe that rape is only something that can happen to a good girl (unless she’s wearing a tight top, haw haw), or that rape in prisons should only ever be boiled [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dear God, Seth Rogen, Rape is Rape &#171; Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-20683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dear God, Seth Rogen, Rape is Rape &#171; Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-20683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] raped, as opposed to knowing it. If we believe that rape is only something that can happen to a good girl (unless she&#8217;s wearing a tight top, haw haw), or that rape in prisons should only ever be [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] raped, as opposed to knowing it. If we believe that rape is only something that can happen to a good girl (unless she&#8217;s wearing a tight top, haw haw), or that rape in prisons should only ever be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Speaking of trafficking and sex-work&#8230; Look what W is up to! &#171; Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-19243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Speaking of trafficking and sex-work&#8230; Look what W is up to! &#171; Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-19243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] like there are &#8220;good rape victims&#8221; and &#8220;bad rape victims&#8221; - there is now a &#8220;good trafficking victim&#8221; and a &#8220;bad trafficking victim.&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] like there are &#8220;good rape victims&#8221; and &#8220;bad rape victims&#8221; &#8211; there is now a &#8220;good trafficking victim&#8221; and a &#8220;bad trafficking victim.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Good Girls, Bad Girls - You Know We Have Our Share &#171; Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-19078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Good Girls, Bad Girls - You Know We Have Our Share &#171; Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-19078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] For a while now, I have been thinking about feminist-to-feminist or even woman-to-woman discussion and *don&#8217;t start yawning just yet I am getting somewhere good* I noticed how similar much of it is to the whole idea that there are &#8220;good rape victims&#8221; and &#8220;bad rape victims. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For a while now, I have been thinking about feminist-to-feminist or even woman-to-woman discussion and *don&#8217;t start yawning just yet I am getting somewhere good* I noticed how similar much of it is to the whole idea that there are &#8220;good rape victims&#8221; and &#8220;bad rape victims. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Universal Fundamentals of Misogyny &#187; Comments from Left Field</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-17032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Universal Fundamentals of Misogyny &#187; Comments from Left Field]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 04:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-17032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] We, as a society are bombarded with sexual images, young girls and women starve themselves to death in a deluded attempt for control over any aspect of their lives, we hear loudmouths constantly telling us that some women who are raped, asked for it. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We, as a society are bombarded with sexual images, young girls and women starve themselves to death in a deluded attempt for control over any aspect of their lives, we hear loudmouths constantly telling us that some women who are raped, asked for it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: safiya</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[safiya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hate rape apologia for many reasons, but mainly because it masks the real issues, like what are the best methods for women to protect themselves. Also, how we can ensure that rape victims get the treatment and justice they deserve, especially considering that rapists frequently re-offend and go on to not only raping their victims, but murdering them too.

The present system just is not protecting women, all that &#039;she deserved it&#039; claptrap, prevents analysis and change is putting women&#039;s lives at risk.

A prime example of of this failure, and it&#039;s deadly implications is the Angelika Kluk case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate rape apologia for many reasons, but mainly because it masks the real issues, like what are the best methods for women to protect themselves. Also, how we can ensure that rape victims get the treatment and justice they deserve, especially considering that rapists frequently re-offend and go on to not only raping their victims, but murdering them too.</p>
<p>The present system just is not protecting women, all that &#8216;she deserved it&#8217; claptrap, prevents analysis and change is putting women&#8217;s lives at risk.</p>
<p>A prime example of of this failure, and it&#8217;s deadly implications is the Angelika Kluk case.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The prosecutor’s other task is to remind jurors that male &lt;b&gt;sexual arousal is not a form of insanity&lt;/b&gt;, even if the defendant is intoxicated, and therefore all male sexual contact is necessarily willful&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Emphasis mine. 

I think that&#039;s a very point, and I thank you for bringing it up. For some reason, our culture (and many other cultures - my friend who was raped and tried to kill herself is Ukrainian) considers men to be baboons when it comes to sex. Funnily enough, they&#039;re not baboons when it comes to everything else. Seems awfully convenient to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The prosecutor’s other task is to remind jurors that male <b>sexual arousal is not a form of insanity</b>, even if the defendant is intoxicated, and therefore all male sexual contact is necessarily willful</p></blockquote>
<p>Emphasis mine. </p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a very point, and I thank you for bringing it up. For some reason, our culture (and many other cultures &#8211; my friend who was raped and tried to kill herself is Ukrainian) considers men to be baboons when it comes to sex. Funnily enough, they&#8217;re not baboons when it comes to everything else. Seems awfully convenient to me.</p>
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		<title>By: James Stanhope</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Stanhope]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I want to make just one more set of comments, this time in response to Byrdeye&#039;s blog and the commenters who agreed with his post.  Byrdeye gave his game away with his title (as I recall it) that &quot;allegedly&quot; half of rape cases are fraudulent.  With the term &quot;allegedly,&quot; anything can be argued.  &quot;Allegedly&quot; even Santa Claus is real.  The studies that Byrdeye cites that supposedly support his claim can&#039;t hold water in the state of Georgia (USA) where I live and work, because, in Georgia, I have never read, in Georgia, where a complaint of rape to the police was actually PROVEN to be fraudulent.  A conviction of rape might not have been obtained, but I have never read that any complaint of rape to the police was actually proven to have been a deliberate fraud.  The closest to a proven fraudulent allegation of rape that I have read of, in Georgia, was a case (I think in the 1980s) where a young woman reported, not to the police, but to her boyfriend, that she had been raped by another man, and the boyfriend allegedly then found the man and killed him.  In court, the young woman admitted that she had lied to her boyfriend when she alleged she had been raped.  But that&#039;s not the same as submitting a fraudulent complaint of rape to the police.  That&#039;s why I don&#039;t believe the claim by Byrdeye&#039;s commenter named &quot;Julie&quot; (I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s not a male in disguise) that young women, after they&#039;ve been dumped by their boyfriends, frequently file fraudulent complaints of rape to the police as an act of revenge.  I&#039;ve never seen that reported in Georgia AT ALL, so I think Julie&#039;s claim is cut out of whole cloth.  At any rate, in Georgia, law enforcement continually reminds the public that most rapes are not reported, so studies about so-called fraudulent complaints of rape aren&#039;t informative about the actual incidence of rape.

I also believe that, as argued by a female commenter on Byrdeye&#039;s post, that Byrdeye himself may have the psychology of a potential rapist.  I&#039;m not familiar with reports about the psychology of convicted rapists, but Byrdeye&#039;s basic arguments that male sexual activity is not willful and that women have the prior duty to deal with that, are the classic rapist&#039;s defenses in court.  It was disturbing how many male commenters lined up in support of Byrdeye&#039;s post. 

Sorry for the long post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to make just one more set of comments, this time in response to Byrdeye&#8217;s blog and the commenters who agreed with his post.  Byrdeye gave his game away with his title (as I recall it) that &#8220;allegedly&#8221; half of rape cases are fraudulent.  With the term &#8220;allegedly,&#8221; anything can be argued.  &#8220;Allegedly&#8221; even Santa Claus is real.  The studies that Byrdeye cites that supposedly support his claim can&#8217;t hold water in the state of Georgia (USA) where I live and work, because, in Georgia, I have never read, in Georgia, where a complaint of rape to the police was actually PROVEN to be fraudulent.  A conviction of rape might not have been obtained, but I have never read that any complaint of rape to the police was actually proven to have been a deliberate fraud.  The closest to a proven fraudulent allegation of rape that I have read of, in Georgia, was a case (I think in the 1980s) where a young woman reported, not to the police, but to her boyfriend, that she had been raped by another man, and the boyfriend allegedly then found the man and killed him.  In court, the young woman admitted that she had lied to her boyfriend when she alleged she had been raped.  But that&#8217;s not the same as submitting a fraudulent complaint of rape to the police.  That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t believe the claim by Byrdeye&#8217;s commenter named &#8220;Julie&#8221; (I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s not a male in disguise) that young women, after they&#8217;ve been dumped by their boyfriends, frequently file fraudulent complaints of rape to the police as an act of revenge.  I&#8217;ve never seen that reported in Georgia AT ALL, so I think Julie&#8217;s claim is cut out of whole cloth.  At any rate, in Georgia, law enforcement continually reminds the public that most rapes are not reported, so studies about so-called fraudulent complaints of rape aren&#8217;t informative about the actual incidence of rape.</p>
<p>I also believe that, as argued by a female commenter on Byrdeye&#8217;s post, that Byrdeye himself may have the psychology of a potential rapist.  I&#8217;m not familiar with reports about the psychology of convicted rapists, but Byrdeye&#8217;s basic arguments that male sexual activity is not willful and that women have the prior duty to deal with that, are the classic rapist&#8217;s defenses in court.  It was disturbing how many male commenters lined up in support of Byrdeye&#8217;s post. </p>
<p>Sorry for the long post.</p>
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		<title>By: James Stanhope</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Stanhope]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only way I can respond to Natalia&#039;s post  is to relate it to jury selection in the U.S.  Within U.S. borders, civilian and I think military rape cases are tried under state criminal codes by juries, and popular perceptions of rape victims do impact jury verdicts and hence jury selection.  I had a year of law school in Ohio where I was taught that rape, under the laws of Ohio, is tried as a specific form of battery, and battery is physical contact without consent.  So the questions of fact presented to the jury would be, first, was there physical contact of the specific kind punishable under rape laws, and second, was there consent.  As Natalia&#039;s post indicates, in the U.S., a defense lawyer&#039;s goal would be to persuade a jury that even if there was contact, there was in fact consent -- and that&#039;s where jury selection is crucial.  A defense attorney&#039;s ideal jurors would not only be prejudiced against women generally (as &quot;Byrdeye,&quot; Natalia&#039;s un-linked blogger, obviously is), but would also believe that women, by choosing to place themselves in a certain human environment (including certain occupations), implicitly give consent.  The prosecutor&#039;s task is to make sure that the jury understands that consenting to a certain environment or occupation does not imply consenting to unwanted physical contact -- i.e., that working as a prostitute or getting drunk at a frat party is not the same as WILLFULLY engaging in a barroom brawl in a bar that the victim knows or should have known to be dangerous.  In other words, choosing to enter a certain environment (dangerous bar) is not the same as choosing to engage in a certain activity  (willful brawling).  Considering that, in the U.S., it is not difficult to select at least half of a jury that already believes that American culture is oversexualized, it is imperative to make sure that even socially conservative jurors understand that choice of environment does not imply choice of a certain activity, and that rape victims&#039; alleged &quot;negligence&quot; in choosing an environment is not a defense against a charge of any unwanted contact, any more than my negligently leaving my door unlocked in a dangerous neighborhood would be a burglar&#039;s defense against a charge of burglary.  I know this is obvious and is a very dry, academic response to Natalia&#039;s outrage about a culture that is biased against rape victims.  But, at least in the U.S., as long as the public is continuously educated about what rape actually is, it should be possible to convince even socially conservative jurors about the distinction between choosing a general environment (including an occupation) and choosing a specific, concrete activity at a specific time and place.  

The prosecutor&#039;s other task is to remind jurors that male sexual arousal is not a form of insanity, even if the defendant is intoxicated, and therefore all male sexual contact is necessarily willful, just as punching someone in the face is necessarily willful regardless of the defendant&#039;s state of mind even if the defendant is intoxicated (unless the defendant is  insane).   So even if a sexually aroused man &quot;feels&quot; like he is &quot;going insane,&quot;  even if he is intoxicated, that&#039;s not a defense against a charge of rape, any more than a state of rage even while intoxicated is a defense against a charge of battery.   Also, male sexual arousal, even while intoxicated, is not a form of mental impairment -- i.e., sexual arousal is not the same as being sleep-deprived while driving on the highway.  In the U.S., prosecutors have to be sure to select jurors who can understand that male sexual arousal is neither insanity nor impairment, and that&#039;s where Natalia&#039;s comments about culture kick in.  In the U.S., all too many men probably have come to believe that their own sexual arousal is a form of insanity or impairment, and men have to be educated that that&#039;s simply not the case.  That kind of education requires a long-term cultural change.  But, in the U.S., it should be possible to select jurors (for at least half the jury)  who can be made to understand that the current popular culture in the U.S. does not represent the facts -- but it&#039;s very challenging.

Sorry for this long, boring post, but issues of jury selection are the only way I can relate Natalia&#039;s concerns with the facts of prosecuting rape in the U.S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way I can respond to Natalia&#8217;s post  is to relate it to jury selection in the U.S.  Within U.S. borders, civilian and I think military rape cases are tried under state criminal codes by juries, and popular perceptions of rape victims do impact jury verdicts and hence jury selection.  I had a year of law school in Ohio where I was taught that rape, under the laws of Ohio, is tried as a specific form of battery, and battery is physical contact without consent.  So the questions of fact presented to the jury would be, first, was there physical contact of the specific kind punishable under rape laws, and second, was there consent.  As Natalia&#8217;s post indicates, in the U.S., a defense lawyer&#8217;s goal would be to persuade a jury that even if there was contact, there was in fact consent &#8212; and that&#8217;s where jury selection is crucial.  A defense attorney&#8217;s ideal jurors would not only be prejudiced against women generally (as &#8220;Byrdeye,&#8221; Natalia&#8217;s un-linked blogger, obviously is), but would also believe that women, by choosing to place themselves in a certain human environment (including certain occupations), implicitly give consent.  The prosecutor&#8217;s task is to make sure that the jury understands that consenting to a certain environment or occupation does not imply consenting to unwanted physical contact &#8212; i.e., that working as a prostitute or getting drunk at a frat party is not the same as WILLFULLY engaging in a barroom brawl in a bar that the victim knows or should have known to be dangerous.  In other words, choosing to enter a certain environment (dangerous bar) is not the same as choosing to engage in a certain activity  (willful brawling).  Considering that, in the U.S., it is not difficult to select at least half of a jury that already believes that American culture is oversexualized, it is imperative to make sure that even socially conservative jurors understand that choice of environment does not imply choice of a certain activity, and that rape victims&#8217; alleged &#8220;negligence&#8221; in choosing an environment is not a defense against a charge of any unwanted contact, any more than my negligently leaving my door unlocked in a dangerous neighborhood would be a burglar&#8217;s defense against a charge of burglary.  I know this is obvious and is a very dry, academic response to Natalia&#8217;s outrage about a culture that is biased against rape victims.  But, at least in the U.S., as long as the public is continuously educated about what rape actually is, it should be possible to convince even socially conservative jurors about the distinction between choosing a general environment (including an occupation) and choosing a specific, concrete activity at a specific time and place.  </p>
<p>The prosecutor&#8217;s other task is to remind jurors that male sexual arousal is not a form of insanity, even if the defendant is intoxicated, and therefore all male sexual contact is necessarily willful, just as punching someone in the face is necessarily willful regardless of the defendant&#8217;s state of mind even if the defendant is intoxicated (unless the defendant is  insane).   So even if a sexually aroused man &#8220;feels&#8221; like he is &#8220;going insane,&#8221;  even if he is intoxicated, that&#8217;s not a defense against a charge of rape, any more than a state of rage even while intoxicated is a defense against a charge of battery.   Also, male sexual arousal, even while intoxicated, is not a form of mental impairment &#8212; i.e., sexual arousal is not the same as being sleep-deprived while driving on the highway.  In the U.S., prosecutors have to be sure to select jurors who can understand that male sexual arousal is neither insanity nor impairment, and that&#8217;s where Natalia&#8217;s comments about culture kick in.  In the U.S., all too many men probably have come to believe that their own sexual arousal is a form of insanity or impairment, and men have to be educated that that&#8217;s simply not the case.  That kind of education requires a long-term cultural change.  But, in the U.S., it should be possible to select jurors (for at least half the jury)  who can be made to understand that the current popular culture in the U.S. does not represent the facts &#8212; but it&#8217;s very challenging.</p>
<p>Sorry for this long, boring post, but issues of jury selection are the only way I can relate Natalia&#8217;s concerns with the facts of prosecuting rape in the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/rape-and-prejudice/#comment-15658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think homeboy here is asking for it, personally. It&#039;s very slutty - going around to people&#039;s blogs and leaving comments on them and all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think homeboy here is asking for it, personally. It&#8217;s very slutty &#8211; going around to people&#8217;s blogs and leaving comments on them and all.</p>
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