Look, afaik no one thinks Madonna’s, like, Gandhi, here. She’s in it for herself, always has been; warm and fuzzy universal sisterhood feminism (if any) hers is not. And yeah, she’s definitely been accused of exploiting people before. Whether that dancer was particularly uncomfortable (one would have to ask her, preferably at a juncture where her job no longer depended on her answer) and/or black-on-white fantasies were being played to especially there, I don’t know.

I do remember, and agreed with to a large extent, the criticisms leveled at her during the “Vogue” era, wherein her “homage” to black drag balls veered over into appropriation (i.e. “this is neat, I’ll just incorporate it into my famousness, meanwhile y’all go on as before without even much acknowledgment let alone recompense”). And as I said, the “Esther” business and the (cult! cult!) Kabbalah center business just makes me roll my eyes; and the whole “how can I be more shocking THIS time?” thing does get old, yes. And on a personal level…look, I don’t think anyone is under the impression she’s -nice-, you know?

Thing is, though, none of this really has much if anything to do with the objections people had to MT’s cartoon, to wit: for someone purporting to be a “radical feminist” this sure reads like your standard not-particularly-feminist-at-all-really gossip mag slagging of female celebrities.

Yeah, I’m sure they’ll like, live, you know; the question isn’t whether poor Madonna and Scarlett Johannsen (what’d she do to merit this, p.s.? and Beyonce? I know she’s said homophobic shit, but somehow I doubt this was the concern here) can survive yet one more obscure person on the Internets being petty; the question is, why does a “radical feminist” particularly get off on this in the first place, and what does this say about the “radical feminism” in question?

And, also: “just joking?” like, lighten UP, where’s your sense of humor? um…irony, much?

As for the “faux-lesbian” thing (which is PS’ thing more than MT’s, I rather think): personally? Doesn’t really bother me. Know why? Because as far as I was concerned growing up, I think -any- expression of same-sex smooching on my TV to any sort of approval would’ve been an improvement over what I -did- have: nothing, and then a couple of books in the library wherein the gay teenagers either died tragically by their own hands or were raped by some creepy boy voyeur. (goddam Sandra Scoppettone for fucking up my puberty anyway…)

And fuck that.

But this is from a dude. So take my comment for what it’s worth.

The dislike of Madonna is curious, because while people dislike her for very specific reasons (“I don’t like her music,” “she tries too hard,” etc.), I find the “crimes against feminism” thing to be puzzling. For sure, it’s been happening for a long time, even when she was crawling on the floor and licking milk out of a saucer, people were objecting to that. But I still don’t get it.

Here’s someone who really, really owns her image. Is probably one of the toughest, and hardest working women in the entertainment business to this day. Is constantly criticized for being “the domineering” one in her marriage (honestly, why do people give a shit, in this day and age? What she and Guy Ritchie are up to behind closed doors is their business).

Say what you want about her style – I was a big fan of the “Ray of Light” phase, for example, and not a fan of the leotard – this woman is clearly intelligent, powerful, and, hey, sexy. At 50. What exactly is her crime against feminism? That she took on the industry and won? That she inspires people and gets people talking? That she is *GASP* a gay icon?

Why is there this ridiculous puritanism in feminist discussion of Madonna? I might ask the same question about Scarlett Johansson. When I was at a college, in class, during a feminist discussion, a grad student made this comment that it’s such a “shame” that Scarlett has “grown into a sexpot.” WTF? Was she supposed to stay a little girl forever? She’s damn fine, she owns it, what do we do, ask her to put a bag over her head?

There’s this catty bullshit that’s being disguised as feminism in many circles, not just online, and it sucks.

http://beyondfeminism.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/spa-me/

…and yet, surprise, IBTP is on the very short blogroll there.

which, yeah, you really can kind of see the influence…

Someday, maybe, someone will explain it to this person about Twisty(ism) in a way that might sink in? perhaps? maybe? For fairly obvious reasons, it shan’t be I:

http://beyondfeminism.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/feminist-writers/#comment-338

touching, though

which is more than you can say for Smug Useless Lump Of Ex Husband there.

“po! po! po! po! popo ZAO! ahahah!”

I take it the male cone bras were…well, no doubt wrong in some other capacity, though.

Seriously, does this person have some kind of issue with femme women, or what? And I love “I was just joking,” that’s not at ALL reminiscent of yer basic misogynist jer–

oh hay look, even Debs thinks so too! wowzers.

I wasn’t a big JT fan until “dick in a box.” Respek!