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	<title>Comments on: Well, then! Thank you, o feisty abstinence-only group, for letting me know I should have killed myself when I was seven!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/</link>
	<description>The sky is high. The Czar is far.</description>
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		<title>By: In a society where married men feel free to hit on young girls&#8230; &#171; Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-21776</link>
		<dc:creator>In a society where married men feel free to hit on young girls&#8230; &#171; Natalia Antonova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-21776</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s not a mentality confined to Jordan. Up until recently, it was the sexually active girl who was stabbed to death in horror films, while the virgin outwitted the serial killer (a stretched or broken hymen automatically renders one into a complete idiot who runs upstairs instead of out the front door, it&#8217;s practically a scientific fact, right?). Even rape victims are routinely expected to take &#8220;the honourable way out&#8221; and die. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s not a mentality confined to Jordan. Up until recently, it was the sexually active girl who was stabbed to death in horror films, while the virgin outwitted the serial killer (a stretched or broken hymen automatically renders one into a complete idiot who runs upstairs instead of out the front door, it&#8217;s practically a scientific fact, right?). Even rape victims are routinely expected to take &#8220;the honourable way out&#8221; and die. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Feminists and the &#8220;Wrong&#8221; Kind of Sexual Abuse Survivors: Or Why We Should All Just Slit Our Throats &#171; Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-19174</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Feminists and the &#8220;Wrong&#8221; Kind of Sexual Abuse Survivors: Or Why We Should All Just Slit Our Throats &#171; Natalia Antonova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-19174</guid>
		<description>[...] People will now reserve the right to gently whisper - &#8220;but you WERE abused as a child, so are you sure you&#8217;re fit to make this argument/take on this project/watch this movie/hang out at this location/fall in love/have a family/raise a child/?&#8221; They are disturbed by your presence, you remind them of what can happen to their own kids - so they want to erase you. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] People will now reserve the right to gently whisper &#8211; &#8220;but you WERE abused as a child, so are you sure you&#8217;re fit to make this argument/take on this project/watch this movie/hang out at this location/fall in love/have a family/raise a child/?&#8221; They are disturbed by your presence, you remind them of what can happen to their own kids &#8211; so they want to erase you. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: belledame222</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18758</link>
		<dc:creator>belledame222</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18758</guid>
		<description>...jesus morphing christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;jesus morphing christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Nienna</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18747</link>
		<dc:creator>Nienna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18747</guid>
		<description>Read this post earlier and didn&#039;t post, but now wanted to add a related (0r not) observation:

I recently saw the trailer for Hounddog (the so-called &quot;Dakota Fanning rape movie&quot; -- what is wrong with these people...??), and, in one scene,  Llewellyn (Dakota Fanning) asks if she can go to hell for someone else&#039;s sin.  I immediately thought of this series of posts (at Dawn Eden&#039;s, Feministe, here and elsewhere). 

And then, after seeing some of the usual nonsense from the religious right about this picture, I realized that, had this been a movie about Maria Goretti, Catholic mothers the world over would be flying their daughters in to audition for the part of the young victim.  In this case, since the child survives and rises above her ordeal, the usual religious cranks are all about how immoral it is to have such a young actress playing such a complex and dark role.

At some point you have to either laugh or cry...

Also -- a tangent, but one that illustrates the utter contradictory nature of Catholic teaching -- how come they claim that it&#039;s part of God&#039;s plan to create new life from rape, but they&#039;re also (through the Maria Goretti fable) claiming that it&#039;s better to off yourself than be raped...?  Huh??   What if you&#039;re raped and then kill yourself, but you were pregnant?!?!  Are you now guilty of murdering your unborn baby?

It&#039;s just such a whacked out, twisted, sick, hateful, fearful swirl&#039;o&#039;crazy...

Anyways, cool post.  Thanks for letting me vent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read this post earlier and didn&#8217;t post, but now wanted to add a related (0r not) observation:</p>
<p>I recently saw the trailer for Hounddog (the so-called &#8220;Dakota Fanning rape movie&#8221; &#8212; what is wrong with these people&#8230;??), and, in one scene,  Llewellyn (Dakota Fanning) asks if she can go to hell for someone else&#8217;s sin.  I immediately thought of this series of posts (at Dawn Eden&#8217;s, Feministe, here and elsewhere). </p>
<p>And then, after seeing some of the usual nonsense from the religious right about this picture, I realized that, had this been a movie about Maria Goretti, Catholic mothers the world over would be flying their daughters in to audition for the part of the young victim.  In this case, since the child survives and rises above her ordeal, the usual religious cranks are all about how immoral it is to have such a young actress playing such a complex and dark role.</p>
<p>At some point you have to either laugh or cry&#8230;</p>
<p>Also &#8212; a tangent, but one that illustrates the utter contradictory nature of Catholic teaching &#8212; how come they claim that it&#8217;s part of God&#8217;s plan to create new life from rape, but they&#8217;re also (through the Maria Goretti fable) claiming that it&#8217;s better to off yourself than be raped&#8230;?  Huh??   What if you&#8217;re raped and then kill yourself, but you were pregnant?!?!  Are you now guilty of murdering your unborn baby?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just such a whacked out, twisted, sick, hateful, fearful swirl&#8217;o'crazy&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyways, cool post.  Thanks for letting me vent.</p>
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		<title>By: Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18716</link>
		<dc:creator>Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18716</guid>
		<description>[...] Antonova discusses why the concept of Purity at All Costs is not something we should embrace.  Pretty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Antonova discusses why the concept of Purity at All Costs is not something we should embrace.  Pretty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18715</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalia Antonova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18715</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Heather. I am in fact... Christian. Although to what extent someone else may consider me Christian is entirely subjective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Heather. I am in fact&#8230; Christian. Although to what extent someone else may consider me Christian is entirely subjective.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18714</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18714</guid>
		<description>Natalia, I&#039;ve been reading your blog for a long time.  I have not read all the comments to this particular post so if someone has already said what I am about to, forgive me.  I don&#039;t have much time to write a long, well-thought out response but in case I never get another chance I just wanted you to know that there are some people who believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and the only way to heaven but who believe that judgment and condemnation are not a part of that way.  And who would never say that BEING raped is a sin.  

Like you said there are many &quot;fundamentals&quot; who think the only way is to be self-righteous, to religiously follow rules and to have nothing but contempt for people outside of that.  But there really are people who want to show people &quot;outside faith&quot; love and truth and who know they themselves are rotten sinners and would therefore not pretend self-righteousness.  

I realize claiming you have the only way is viewed nowadays as being intolerant etc in and of itself but that will have to wait for another time.  

If you&#039;re at all interested in learning more about loving Christians (versus judgmental, hateful ones) I can recommend some authors.  Off the top of my head Philip Yancey comes to mind.  He perfectly sees everything wrong with Christianity but has also found it to be the only truth to be found in the world.  I was Just Wondering, What&#039;s so Amazing about Grace, the Bible Jesus Read . . . . all great books.  They&#039;re written for evangelical Christians but you might get what I&#039;m talking about out of it.  

Let me know if you&#039;re interested and I&#039;ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list.  

Sorry I don&#039;t have more time.  

God bless,
Heather</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natalia, I&#8217;ve been reading your blog for a long time.  I have not read all the comments to this particular post so if someone has already said what I am about to, forgive me.  I don&#8217;t have much time to write a long, well-thought out response but in case I never get another chance I just wanted you to know that there are some people who believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and the only way to heaven but who believe that judgment and condemnation are not a part of that way.  And who would never say that BEING raped is a sin.  </p>
<p>Like you said there are many &#8220;fundamentals&#8221; who think the only way is to be self-righteous, to religiously follow rules and to have nothing but contempt for people outside of that.  But there really are people who want to show people &#8220;outside faith&#8221; love and truth and who know they themselves are rotten sinners and would therefore not pretend self-righteousness.  </p>
<p>I realize claiming you have the only way is viewed nowadays as being intolerant etc in and of itself but that will have to wait for another time.  </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re at all interested in learning more about loving Christians (versus judgmental, hateful ones) I can recommend some authors.  Off the top of my head Philip Yancey comes to mind.  He perfectly sees everything wrong with Christianity but has also found it to be the only truth to be found in the world.  I was Just Wondering, What&#8217;s so Amazing about Grace, the Bible Jesus Read . . . . all great books.  They&#8217;re written for evangelical Christians but you might get what I&#8217;m talking about out of it.  </p>
<p>Let me know if you&#8217;re interested and I&#8217;ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list.  </p>
<p>Sorry I don&#8217;t have more time.  </p>
<p>God bless,<br />
Heather</p>
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		<title>By: Abstinence Only Goes Too Far</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18707</link>
		<dc:creator>Abstinence Only Goes Too Far</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18707</guid>
		<description>[...] Catholic Church has, in the past, canonized 12-year-old girls for choosing death over rape: wow (read another abuse survivor&#8217;s commentary). Certainly the idea that purity is more important than [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Catholic Church has, in the past, canonized 12-year-old girls for choosing death over rape: wow (read another abuse survivor&#8217;s commentary). Certainly the idea that purity is more important than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SD</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18696</link>
		<dc:creator>SD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18696</guid>
		<description>Great post Natalia. I went to a Catholic school but don&#039;t remember Maria Goretti. Just as well or I might have thought of killing myself too. There&#039;s nothing more or less pure about my vagina than about my liver. 

@batguano: you can&#039;t have it both ways. Either God is loving and forgiving or He is vengeful and punishing. You can have the new testament or the old testament but you can&#039;t have both. So either your first or last paragraph true cos it can&#039;t be both. 

It&#039;s interesting how so many people use the old testament to justify their oppressive beliefs while claiming that Jesus said it. Nope Jesus didn&#039;t say it. If you&#039;re looking for an oppressive voice in the new testament you have to go to St Paul the Misogynist in pretty much invented the church.

@Casual Observer: long walk, short pier. That is all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Natalia. I went to a Catholic school but don&#8217;t remember Maria Goretti. Just as well or I might have thought of killing myself too. There&#8217;s nothing more or less pure about my vagina than about my liver. </p>
<p>@batguano: you can&#8217;t have it both ways. Either God is loving and forgiving or He is vengeful and punishing. You can have the new testament or the old testament but you can&#8217;t have both. So either your first or last paragraph true cos it can&#8217;t be both. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting how so many people use the old testament to justify their oppressive beliefs while claiming that Jesus said it. Nope Jesus didn&#8217;t say it. If you&#8217;re looking for an oppressive voice in the new testament you have to go to St Paul the Misogynist in pretty much invented the church.</p>
<p>@Casual Observer: long walk, short pier. That is all.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2008/09/08/well-then-thank-you-o-feisty-abstinence-only-group-for-letting-me-know-i-should-have-killed-myself-when-i-was-seven/#comment-18694</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalia Antonova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.wordpress.com/?p=904#comment-18694</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a feminist who believes in God, and I don&#039;t &quot;whip up hate for men&quot; - that is a stupid stereotype.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a feminist who believes in God, and I don&#8217;t &#8220;whip up hate for men&#8221; &#8211; that is a stupid stereotype.</p>
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