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	<title>Comments on: Depression: at the Black Gate with Anton Chekhov and Leroy Jenkins</title>
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	<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/</link>
	<description>The sky is high. The Czar is far.</description>
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		<title>By: Xena</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22443</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Xena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW, I&#039;ve never had to deal with a real chemical depression, but when things are shitty for me and little things are tainted by my mood to a point where I&#039;m screaming &quot;THE BITTER IRONY OF IT ALL&quot;, I just remember that irony doesn&#039;t have to be bitter. It&#039;s usually pretty funny. The &quot;bitter&quot; kind is actually the unusual kind of irony.

Check out my favourite giggle: I found the first half of my first-year philosophy class annoying, pointless, insulting and sometimes even offensive, right from the first lesson (Anselm&#039;s Ontological Argument for God&#039;s Existence) It might not have been such a strain if I weren&#039;t going back to school in my thirties with some pretty solid ecofeminist and evolutionist convictions, but as it was I left a lot of those classes feeling like I was about to give myself a freaking aneurysm!

So my prof put this load of religious kife up on his slides first class and I was thinking man, did John Cleese write that? So I used a little philosopher&#039;s trick I learned for testing an argument&#039;s validity, and substituted the word &quot;sandwich&quot; for God. (I apologize to the religious readers on this site--I&#039;m not knocking God, just Anselm&#039;s silly words) Well I couldn&#039;t stop there, I had to start throwing in words like &quot;beer&quot; and &quot;erect**n&quot;, make a little song out of it in the style of Monty Python, that sort of thing.

That&#039;s when I realized that the real value of the piece is not so much in its persuasive ability, but in its value in Latin as a Gregorian chant, its ability to create ritual consciousness--as in Spiritum contra Spiritus--or a different kind of &quot;giddiness&quot; which I bring out in myself as often as I can through meditation, exercise, Tarot (for focus, not fortune telling) and LAUGHTER!

I agree with the blogger that stated that people who are prone to depression are &quot;wired&quot; differently, and often more creative, but on the flip-side they can also (sometimes) be more prone to lie down under paternalistic or even dangerous religious ideologies, or become substance abusers, etc. It&#039;s even more important for people who are wired in such a way to give their &quot;left brained&quot;, linear, measuring thought functions frequent rest, so that they can use what comes more &quot;naturally&quot; for them.

I&#039;m not telling you to forgo medication if you have a bonafide chemical depression, I&#039;m just saying that doctors (and churches and just about anybody with a product to sell) forget that sometimes the things we worship (including consumptiveness, beauty myths, logocentrism, or stupid boyfriends) are what&#039;s making us miserable in the first place. More of the same is not going to fix anything.

Try flipping the things that depress you upside-down&amp;inside out to a &quot;pattern&quot; (painting, music, chanting, etc.) until you find the point where the tragic becomes comic and the comic becomes a learning process. It&#039;s not a &quot;cure&quot;, but it might help. 

At the very least you might be able to catch a giggle at the absurdity of the methods of gentle leftist ideologies like mine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I&#8217;ve never had to deal with a real chemical depression, but when things are shitty for me and little things are tainted by my mood to a point where I&#8217;m screaming &#8220;THE BITTER IRONY OF IT ALL&#8221;, I just remember that irony doesn&#8217;t have to be bitter. It&#8217;s usually pretty funny. The &#8220;bitter&#8221; kind is actually the unusual kind of irony.</p>
<p>Check out my favourite giggle: I found the first half of my first-year philosophy class annoying, pointless, insulting and sometimes even offensive, right from the first lesson (Anselm&#8217;s Ontological Argument for God&#8217;s Existence) It might not have been such a strain if I weren&#8217;t going back to school in my thirties with some pretty solid ecofeminist and evolutionist convictions, but as it was I left a lot of those classes feeling like I was about to give myself a freaking aneurysm!</p>
<p>So my prof put this load of religious kife up on his slides first class and I was thinking man, did John Cleese write that? So I used a little philosopher&#8217;s trick I learned for testing an argument&#8217;s validity, and substituted the word &#8220;sandwich&#8221; for God. (I apologize to the religious readers on this site&#8211;I&#8217;m not knocking God, just Anselm&#8217;s silly words) Well I couldn&#8217;t stop there, I had to start throwing in words like &#8220;beer&#8221; and &#8220;erect**n&#8221;, make a little song out of it in the style of Monty Python, that sort of thing.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s when I realized that the real value of the piece is not so much in its persuasive ability, but in its value in Latin as a Gregorian chant, its ability to create ritual consciousness&#8211;as in Spiritum contra Spiritus&#8211;or a different kind of &#8220;giddiness&#8221; which I bring out in myself as often as I can through meditation, exercise, Tarot (for focus, not fortune telling) and LAUGHTER!</p>
<p>I agree with the blogger that stated that people who are prone to depression are &#8220;wired&#8221; differently, and often more creative, but on the flip-side they can also (sometimes) be more prone to lie down under paternalistic or even dangerous religious ideologies, or become substance abusers, etc. It&#8217;s even more important for people who are wired in such a way to give their &#8220;left brained&#8221;, linear, measuring thought functions frequent rest, so that they can use what comes more &#8220;naturally&#8221; for them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not telling you to forgo medication if you have a bonafide chemical depression, I&#8217;m just saying that doctors (and churches and just about anybody with a product to sell) forget that sometimes the things we worship (including consumptiveness, beauty myths, logocentrism, or stupid boyfriends) are what&#8217;s making us miserable in the first place. More of the same is not going to fix anything.</p>
<p>Try flipping the things that depress you upside-down&amp;inside out to a &#8220;pattern&#8221; (painting, music, chanting, etc.) until you find the point where the tragic becomes comic and the comic becomes a learning process. It&#8217;s not a &#8220;cure&#8221;, but it might help. </p>
<p>At the very least you might be able to catch a giggle at the absurdity of the methods of gentle leftist ideologies like mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Xena</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22441</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Xena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first time I read what appeared to be a decent translation of &quot;Misery&quot; it inspired me to try to teach myself Russian out of a DIY book with no audio, so I could enjoy it in its original form. That was one of the funniest DIYs I&#039;ve ever messed up, right after my-- ahem--birdhouse, and right before the sweater I tried to knit for my cat.

I still love his work, though. It might even be worth getting some professional help with the language thing so I can learn more about that powerful presence (Bolshodushie?) Is that something like what DeNiro and Clint Eastwood have on screen?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first time I read what appeared to be a decent translation of &#8220;Misery&#8221; it inspired me to try to teach myself Russian out of a DIY book with no audio, so I could enjoy it in its original form. That was one of the funniest DIYs I&#8217;ve ever messed up, right after my&#8211; ahem&#8211;birdhouse, and right before the sweater I tried to knit for my cat.</p>
<p>I still love his work, though. It might even be worth getting some professional help with the language thing so I can learn more about that powerful presence (Bolshodushie?) Is that something like what DeNiro and Clint Eastwood have on screen?</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks guys. And it was good to meet you today, FINALLY, Lily. :) Never been to Anton&#039;s house in Yalta. Should get my ass down there, one of these days. 

The Silm is great. Many people don&#039;t consider it &quot;canon,&quot; but whatever. It&#039;s a good read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys. And it was good to meet you today, FINALLY, Lily. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Never been to Anton&#8217;s house in Yalta. Should get my ass down there, one of these days. </p>
<p>The Silm is great. Many people don&#8217;t consider it &#8220;canon,&#8221; but whatever. It&#8217;s a good read.</p>
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		<title>By: GallingGalla</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GallingGalla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aw, Natalia, so sorry you&#039;re so down, and I hope things turn around for you soon.

Cranky Liberal: Judgmental people like you are one reason why so many women are depressed, so how about you shut your piehole?

RE: Tolkien, lately, i&#039;ve been into the Silmarillion much more than LoTR.  Probably because I am channeling burned-by-the-silm Maglor a lot lately.  But also because there are so many stories of human / elven failure, as opposed to the very good-vs-evil nature of LoTR.

(and i think Peter Jackson distorted the LoTR story and especially the characters so badly that it&#039;s not the same universe any more.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, Natalia, so sorry you&#8217;re so down, and I hope things turn around for you soon.</p>
<p>Cranky Liberal: Judgmental people like you are one reason why so many women are depressed, so how about you shut your piehole?</p>
<p>RE: Tolkien, lately, i&#8217;ve been into the Silmarillion much more than LoTR.  Probably because I am channeling burned-by-the-silm Maglor a lot lately.  But also because there are so many stories of human / elven failure, as opposed to the very good-vs-evil nature of LoTR.</p>
<p>(and i think Peter Jackson distorted the LoTR story and especially the characters so badly that it&#8217;s not the same universe any more.)</p>
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		<title>By: lily</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chekhov meets Tolkien...!!! Too right he&#039;d be snide. But Chekhov is indeed inspiring - I love what you say about his not-little-bitchness being a commodity. Have you been to his house in Yalta? I think I felt there something like you did in Moscow.  Such a sense of the opposite of &#039;malodushie&#039; -  &#039;bolshodushie&#039;?  

I too like your blog very much and hope you keep writing and keep yourself together in grim times...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chekhov meets Tolkien&#8230;!!! Too right he&#8217;d be snide. But Chekhov is indeed inspiring &#8211; I love what you say about his not-little-bitchness being a commodity. Have you been to his house in Yalta? I think I felt there something like you did in Moscow.  Such a sense of the opposite of &#8216;malodushie&#8217; &#8211;  &#8216;bolshodushie&#8217;?  </p>
<p>I too like your blog very much and hope you keep writing and keep yourself together in grim times&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: manas</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[manas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nice to see that there are people who love anton chekov
great man
thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice to see that there are people who love anton chekov<br />
great man<br />
thanks</p>
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		<title>By: joy</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22117</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad they&#039;re helping.  You&#039;re a smart woman and I can&#039;t tell you anything you don&#039;t already know as far as taking care of yourself.  Please do remember, though, that your loyal fans are rooting for you.  Also please remember that if you get *really* down, you&#039;re not overreacting, and it&#039;s probably time to get to a talk therapist or a doctor who can prescribe something.  Again, you&#039;re plenty smart and I really don&#039;t mean to patronize, I just don&#039;t want you to unnecessarily downplay the condition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad they&#8217;re helping.  You&#8217;re a smart woman and I can&#8217;t tell you anything you don&#8217;t already know as far as taking care of yourself.  Please do remember, though, that your loyal fans are rooting for you.  Also please remember that if you get *really* down, you&#8217;re not overreacting, and it&#8217;s probably time to get to a talk therapist or a doctor who can prescribe something.  Again, you&#8217;re plenty smart and I really don&#8217;t mean to patronize, I just don&#8217;t want you to unnecessarily downplay the condition.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not really, no. But my family is good people and they&#039;re helping in their own way, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really, no. But my family is good people and they&#8217;re helping in their own way, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: joy</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad to hear that reports of your suicide are exaggerated.  Are there any good resources for people with depression in Kiev?  Does your family (immediate or extended) understand the illness?  Короче, do you have people on the ground who can help you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to hear that reports of your suicide are exaggerated.  Are there any good resources for people with depression in Kiev?  Does your family (immediate or extended) understand the illness?  Короче, do you have people on the ground who can help you?</p>
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		<title>By: Natalia Antonova</title>
		<link>http://nataliaantonova.com/2009/10/08/depression-at-the-black-gate-with-anton-chekhov-and-leroy-jenkins/#comment-22114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalia Antonova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nataliaantonova.com/?p=2274#comment-22114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, friends, for reading and commenting. Always. :)

Reports of my fantastically bloody suicide are greatly exaggerated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, friends, for reading and commenting. Always. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Reports of my fantastically bloody suicide are greatly exaggerated.</p>
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