This interview with a famous pick-up artist who goes by “Mystery” (as much as I like original thinkers, something is clearly amiss here) on Salon has drawn many interesting responses, a number of them coming from self-described “nice guys” who got tired of jerking off while women referred to them as “good listeners,” patted them on the arm, and ran off to be with other dudes. The embittered “nice guys” in question claim that they eventually became so-called badasses, and got laid.
What the former “nice guys” clearly aren’t getting is that first of all, yes, some women are into men who act like jerks. Especially the women who hang out in bars all the time (nothing against bars, which collective comprise my home away from home) – a number of them are out there representing for the masochist contingent. That’s the ugly reality of our ugly world.
The other thing is, when “nice guys” think they’re being nice, half the time they’re merely being shy. You go on a couple of dates with a “nice guy,” and when he refuses to make a single move and barely holds eye contact for five seconds straight, you decide that he doesn’t really like you all that much and is seeing you out of a sense of profound boredom, or else is a latent homosexual still coming to grips with his identity, or else is a weirdo who doesn’t know what he wants. And then you move on.
A “nice guy” doesn’t need to turn into a raging prick in order to get play. How about something as mundane and obvious as developing a sense of confidence? Prickdom and confidence can be mutually exclusive. You don’t need to pay for a seminar to unravel this particular, ah, mystery. Prickdom, meanwhile, is a great way to attract the afore-mentioned masochists, the ones who need to see a counselor instead of seeing you. It’s a pathetic way of preying on other people’s insecurities, and while it may get you laid, it won’t make you happy, not in the long run.
I’m willing to bet my favourite pair of stilettos (OK, my only pair of stilettos, but who’s counting?) that the “nice guys” siding with Mystery simply learned to get the hell out of their shell. They didn’t fork over their hard-earned cash for the purpose of this realization, and good for them.
Having said that, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong or offensive with the pick-up artist’s shtick. People go to therapists to help them with their numerous issues, so why not to some guy in a weird hat?
For more on Mystery, see someone far wittier than I.
Natalia A. 
I think your commentary is actually much more insightful. Although, I must admit that I do like being called “witty” much more than what another commenter said about me (“Wow, way to look like an idiot”).
I think you’re right. There’s nothing wrong with working out social issues. But this guy is an ex-magician who really seems to treat women, at best like trained animals and at worst like objects. That’s the problem I have with it.
Well, that and the guyliner.
I agree completely – his views on women are stupid at best. But he’s helping shallow people find other shallow people, however – which is wonderful. This way, they stay the hell out of my path. 😉
I like your shoes, can I get you a drink?
Only if you can tell me if they’re Manolos or Via Spiga… 😉
A man may realise that he’s sunk as far as he can in many ways: he may wake up in a dungheap wearing a pink tutu; he may find himself drinking methylated spirits for breakfast, or singing Hanson medleys on Skegness pier for loose change. Then again, he might wake up one morning to realise that he has paid good money to be taught the world’s tackiest skill by a man who dresses like a deranged jackdaw.
What’s worse, for the same money one of Mystery Pillock’s clients could have picked up a couple of prostitutes, some cocktail mixers and an ounce, and still have had enough money left over to buy a new suit. That would solve the problems of frustration, tension, giving a tinker’s cuss about anything that isn’t the location of Jaffa Cakes, and not owning a decent suit. It wouldn’t solve the problem of low self-esteem, but I’ve a feeling that a pick-up masterclass won’t either; and without the suit and the Jaffa Cakes you don’t stand a chance anyway.
Speaking of that, why don’t more people start conversations by offering confectionary? ‘Care for a chocolate biscuit?’ sounds so much better than ‘may I unclog my nostrils in your serviette?’
Just out of curiosity, why does no one tool on female readers of books like “The Rules” like this? I see a double-standard about how people try to understand and relate to the (very different) opposite sex.
I agree with Natalia’s comment that tutoring like “Mystery”s’ might be useful if it brings someone out of their shell. How understandable it is to have a shell in the first place depends a lot, I believe, on where you live. As someone who went through an American high school and smaller four-year university where the social conceit was “masculinity=being a jock” [that’s ‘athlete’, not ‘Scotsman’ for you Brits], I can tell you there can be a lot of shell to climb out of. And I think that society is more helpful to gays ‘coming out’ than it is to shy hetero guys, especially if you’re not the shy, powerfully-built, dark-curly-haired guy of female fantasy. And did I deballock myself in the minds of others when I confessed that? If so, see what I mean about double standards?
At any rate, the more spoiled a city, region or nation’s women, the brusquer they tend to be about refusing men, and the more confidence a man needs to approach the next woman. Sexual confidence, like T.E. Lawrence’s famous remark about battlefield courage, can be overdrawn, like a bank account.
I haven’t read ‘Mystery”s book, but I don’t know why his techniques wouldn’t work outside of bars and clubs as well; I know I meet nicer, less slutty women outside of bars and clubs anyway. Whatever the venue, women like to be entertained, especially when other guys seem dull, and it seems like ‘Mystery’ knows how to do that. A “talent to amuse” sounds like one thing which women like that a nice but non-tall, non-buff guy might learn to win a woman over, instead of fatuously wishing for more Darwinian traits he can’t have.
Oh, and Mystery’s wearing less eyeliner than Amy Whitehouse. But perhaps he’s not as good as a Motown tribute singer….
Dear D – Since the time for marrying me has come and gone, you can do the next best thing. You know what it is. It has the words “Harry” and “Potter” in it somewhere. Or it should. Or, if you really don’t want to, it can have some other words. But please, please, please… I WOULD care for a chocolate biscuit, by the way. Can you arrange for an air-lift to Dubai? It’s too hot to leave the house in search of one.
Oh and “The Rules”? What a pile of trash. Don’t go anywhere near a woman who lives her life by “The Rules,” Alex, and you’ll be spared a lot of grief.
Wow. I have heard nothing but condemnation from feminists everywhere about Mystery’s Method.
Simple things to remember: the techniques taught by the seduction community work. Women really are looking for emotional stimulation in the form of an alpha male. Even if a guy is “confident,” if he displays too much interest in the girl, he’s gone. I have seen way too many girls go for genuinely mean jerks to not believe that there is some evolutionary rationale for it. The simple fact is that girls feel emotionally satisfied when they are with guys that dominate them. That’s it. Mystery teaches us how to do that without the negative effects of being an asshole. Don’t hate.
Oh baby, oh baby.
If you can afford manolos, you can by me a drink. Actually I think that was part of Mystery’s shtick last time I watched.
“I can put my leg on your shoulder”
“Ok, if you buy me a drink first.”
Suddenly, I’m glad I’m not in the States to enjoy the spectacle that is Mystery.
“Suddenly, I’m glad I’m not in the States to enjoy the spectacle that is Mystery.”
No, you have The Cyclone Club; how romantic.
Sadly, I suspect that the “masochist contingent” represents the majority of womanhood. As JS said, they’re visceral due to evolution, and not rational, even when making the most important decisions, such as choosing a mate.
“Amy thought that Bodo somewhat resembled Jay, her ex, her late husband. Both felt that nihilism was sexy and seemed to believe that there was no real eroticism that didn’t defy the taboos. Neither Jay nor old Heisinger was sharply intelligent. Very sexy men frequently were stupid, and shared stupidity is an important force when it is presented in the language of independence or emancipation. The appeal of such men is aimed straight at those strata in women’s feelings that lie beneath cleverness.”
Saul Bellow
The Actual
But for sexual nihilism in grand old Sexual Revolution style, see The Cyclone Club…..
I always tell my male friends that if they haven’t had much luck with running into women they’re compatible with, they should rub more Buddha bellies and make less generalizations.
I must not be up on slang: what’s rubbing a Buddha belly?
I’d like to make fewer generalizations, and really believe that “rich diversity of human life” stuff; God knows the world would seem more interesting that way. But when you look around at the world, it’s really just a bunch of two-legged hyenas trying to get as much cash, sex, status and power, everyone else be damned. In fact, we tear others to pieces whenever we get the chance, and try to get the victim to smile as we do it.
Speaking of callous cruelty, why is it so fashionable now for so many non-black women to date or hook up with black guys? Is it really about the real or fictitious 10″ wangs; the fact that they provide the only male recording ‘artists’ now who sound like they have two balls which knock together when they walk; or that women get off on the idea that they’re more likely to curse or hit them? That they’re not safe, unlike Daddy? I read on the cover of a recent Ebony issue that only 1 in 3 black household with kids has a dad in it. Frankly, as a burning-out “nice guy”, I’m really getting sick of this mating “Game” shit. Fuck, I’M about ready to go to someplace like the Cyclone Club. Goodness should be the only real hallmark of compatibility for decent people, but it seems that decadence and cruelty and selfishness need more lebensraum, and goodness and decency need to shove off. I’m getting drunk as I write this, so it might be grammitcally incorrect.
Hokay. I’m not even qualified to address the weird racial shit.
As for the whole “nice guy” thing, here’s a site that sums it up best:
http://heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml
I’m also going to suggest that you need help. Not as a joke or as a dig. Seriously. And I’m not going to say anything else.
I read the link. I don’t think that I resemble the
more extreme definition of “Nice Guy”. Maybe ‘well-intentioned guy willing to give and take with a partner, and who would not sacrifice personal honor for love’? Does that sound so self-degrading? A man can be nice without being a Nice Guy. My concern is that women view all men who are nice as Nice Guys, and pick guys who are as least like Nice Guys as possible, even if–especially if–they are selfish, lying and brutal. That’s why I wondered about the date-a-Brotha phenomenon. But you won’t go near that PC turd, apparently. Ironic that it’s PC and hip for non-black chicks to date black guys, but un-PC to mention it!
I found a number of spelling mistakes on the page, like ‘inherintly’; it detracts from the strength of the writer’s argument.
You suggest that I “need help”. I’ve noticed that Western societies (and Japan) have seen a surge in people seeking psychiatric help, even as the numbers of lasting marriages in the West and Japan have declined. Last year, it was reported that more US adults live alone or in a single-parent household than with a partner. Social, not personal pathology, seems to be the real problem.
“We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different”, says the “heartless-bitches” website writer. This emotional nihilism, which takes romantic impermanence for granted (did the author’s parents divorce? Is the author being subjective?) isn’t going to provide much ‘help’ to anyone: it’s like going to church and hearing that there is no God. Whether there is a God or not, many people seem better for believing in one. And is a shrink really better than a spouse? And speaking of parents, Natalie, mine are still married; how about yours? Of the people you know in NC or Ua., how many are married and look like they’ll stay that way? If married people are a minority, is that somehow wrong? Gays are a minority: should this fact encourage the hetero majority to call them ‘wrong’ (as, sadly, it has through most of human history)?
As much as I have supported women’s rights up until recently, I cannot support those who place self ahead of others in all times and places. Marriage and family, as the H-B essay said, involves compromise. Most people crave romantic and family connection, whatever feminist or sexual liberation voices say otherwise. But sexual and feminist thought seems to envision people as Byronic Manfred figures, alone on the heights, looking over the common herd of schleps who were weak enough to fall in love and get married. Like the Bolsheviks and Fascists, it lauds a cult of unfeeling or contemptuous emotional Hardness. Like the Bolsheviks after 1917, these voices seem to want to destroy existing social units, and replace them with a Paradise of their own imaginings. With the “zipless fuck”, an arrangement which ultimately benefits irresponsible men more than women. Knowing these things, it does not surprise me that the Islamists are so fearful of social changes in things like women’s rights, and fear the arrival of Western-style social disintegration. This is why Muslim immigrants to Europe actively discourage their kids from adopting many Western customs. And the proponents of explosive belts have a Hardness all their own…
I’ve finished with contributing to blogs. It’s a waste of time. Venting frustration, often even criticism itself, is useless and unmanly, so I’ll leave it to the women who were doing it before I ever started visiting blogs. There’s mostly ideology, not information, on them. And so much of the ideology is pre-masticated thought, not the product of objective, well-read personal inquiry. At any rate, I hope that you haven’t gone to the UAE to try to turn Middle Eastern women into 21-C. Susan Anthonys, much less Erica Jongs. I suspect the Stan al-Kowalskis of the region would be willing to shed (are shedding?) the blood of a lot of women before rolling over in a liberal Western-style Nice Guy sort of way. The UAE may be the harbinger of a new Middle East, but I suspect it may actually be a pre-1975 Saigon, or Phnom Penh.
Feel free to, womanly, have the last word (“He was such a JERK!! :((( ). “If it feels good, do it”, as most Cyclone Club clientèle probably agree.
Alex,
Dude,
what the fuck are you on. So bloody whiny. Can’t find a soul mate blame everyone and everything. Your diatribes are quite tedious. I regularly follow this blog but rarely comment. Unlike you I find giving the blogosphere regular doses of verbal diarrhea to be distasteful. This whole nice guy thing is nauseating, please do something worthwhile with your life rather than bemoan your inability to pick up women.
I’m curious, when you say western what do you mean exactly? Where does the “West” begin and where does it end. What are “Western” values? I know America is so pre-occupied with Abortion being the line in the sand between conservatism and liberalism. The fact that this is a major issue in 21st century America is pathetic in itself but consider for a moment that Abortion is legal and always has been in most Arab countries. Since one’s stance on Abortion is a signifier of liberalism and conservastism then the Arab world must be full of flaming liberals considering the fact that abortion has never been an issue.
Your comments are full of gross generalizations. I guess you can’t help your myopic up bringing. Clearly you have mummy issues. Give her a ring, sort it out, find out how she’s ruined your sexual development.
Wow.
That’s…
Wow.
You know, Alex, the problem with you is that you think you’re nice, but you’re not. Your comments here are abusive, offensive, and insulting. You think that you’re a nice guy, and you lament how hard dating is, but look at how little you value women. Look at the way you think about them, and ask yourself why should any woman find that attractive? If your opinion of women is as low as it appears to be here, women aren’t avoiding you to date assholes, they’re avoiding you because you’re an asshole.
The overall quality of comments I got on my previous blog was even worse. Part of the reason I canned it, actually. I don’t even have anything to say to the crazy fuckers anymore. It’s just not worth it after a while.
I’m glad I found this blog.:) Thank you for pointing me here, Roy.:) Once I quit working all this overtime, I’ll be reading and commenting here a lot more.:)