Sweet Jesus! WHAT ABOUT THE MEN???

I just love it when, in the comments to an essay about a brutally subjugated group, some guy shows up and starts screeching “halp! Halp! I’m being oppressed!” Not only that, but he feels the need to point out that he and those like him are, in fact, being oppressed more. Their oppression is bigger than yours. They’ll totally whip it out and show you.

Yes, evil, Russian W H O R E S are after this man’s livelihood! His very existence! He even has fancy statistics to prove it (he doesn’t cite them, but what can we expect from a terrified victim holed up in a basement somewhere?). They’re about to burst through his front door, devour him alive, and steal his good silver while they’re at it. Anti-trafficking activists need to drop whatever it is we’re doing, and help him out!

I know, I’m crying about the terrible injustice of it all as I type this post. I mean, how could I, when writing an essay such as “Natasha From Russia” forget to mention that the real problem isn’t trafficking and murder and rape, it’s the egos of all those guys who thought that their dollar bills were going to buy them an Angel in the House from an impoverished community, only to have the Angels turn out to be not sufficiently grateful for it all. I need to take that essay offline and done some sackcloth and ashes in the desert for a while. Maybe then I can live with myself.

I have sympathy for anyone whose love life crashes and burns (the key word in all of this is “love”). I have zero sympathy for anyone who never learned the words to the Beatles’ “Can’t Buy Me Love” and proceeds to lecture me about the evil nature of women who have used men’s own racist fetishism against them. See, it’s OK for Western men to approach Russian women purely from a mercantile perspective, but when those women adopt the same tactics and beat them at their own game? Boo hoo! Unfair! I have an owwwwwie! You must sit and listen all about my owwwwwie if you’re going to dare to bring up the subject of the trafficking of these women! Having my stupid ass handed to me by someone who turned out to be my equal (equality? The nerve!) is totally more important than someone being anally raped by a bunch of thugs, to be tossed out on the street when she’s past her expiration date! Pay attention to meeeee, I’m in pain here!!!

Anyone who wants to respond to this gentleman directly can do so at the link I provided.

18 thoughts on “Sweet Jesus! WHAT ABOUT THE MEN???

  1. Clearly the fellow is super pissed – he paid good money for it, I’m sure, how dare the “bride” actually take advantage of him and his kind? Hopefully, he will die alone and bitter…

  2. Well, to some extent, he has a point.

    A lot of the men who seek marry FSU women are, in Western eyes, “losers”. Many are bitter about Western women, and like most men, want attractive women that they can’t get in the West (no looks, not enough money, etc.).

    But, many women are looking only for escape, and don’t think about the soul of the person they are marrying.

    I don’t understand marrying a complete stranger, with whom you share no common language, and who you have not observed for a long period.

  3. I agree that two real people are involved in this deal, and we can’t overlook that. However, do the men in question care about the women’s souls? Hell no, they don’t even think they HAVE souls (as evidence by this gentleman’s charming post). End result? They get precisely what they asked for.

  4. He never posted that. And, he is right that this is another form of prostitution.

    A man who marries a woman 30 years his junior should be more circumspent but overall, the tenor of his post is truthful. There are whole sites in Russian explaining how to scam Americans to get a green card. The fact that you don’t see this is telling. These women are exploiting, in many cases, lonely souls who want love and a family life.

    One in five Ukrainian women is involved in prostitution (I mean directly, not through marriage). All the aid sent to flooded villages has been stolen. Western Ukrainians working abroad are robbed by the police when they return. The soul of the nation is deathly ill.

    I would gather from this blog that your father was a party member before the collapse, and your life is one, relative to other Ukrainians, of privilege. Have you really lived among Ukrainians, travelled the villages of Ukraine (or Russia), seen how people really live?

  5. Katya, of course he’s not going to post about how these women have no souls – most people who think like he does don’t even realize that they are prejudiced. Do you really expect most assholes to admit they’re being assholes? Good luck with that.

    I’m actually in Ukraine right now, waiting for the cold spell to end so I can go mushroom-picking. You want me to show you my creds? Sorry, I don’t play that game. I don’t need to justify myself to you.

    Do I speak for Ukrainians? No, I don’t. I speak for myself, and for the people I care about.

    Are scams real? Sure, they are. As real as the willingness of these men to purchase, yes PURCHASE, companionship. If they think they’re doing something else, they’re willfully fooling themselves. In fact, you know what? I wish they didn’t. If they could only be honest about what they want, their feelings, and the feelings of others, could be more or less spared. I’m not against sex-work, in case you haven’t noticed. I’m against the idea that you can buy love. And scream and wave your fists in the air and call yourself a victim when things don’t go your way.

    “The soul of the nation is deathly ill.” Well, that’s certainly a statement I can get behind. But I’m not going to lay the blame at the feet of the women.

    I don’t know what it is that you find “telling” about me, but I’m not sure that I care. And I don’t discuss my parents on this site. They didn’t sign up for that.

  6. RE: Katya’s comment dated Sept. 13 at 9:36 p.m., entire second paragraph, including her statement, “There are whole sites in Russian explaining how to scam Americans to get a green card.”

    Katya, there are also multiple sites in English warning prospective American suitors about the nature and methods of these Russian scams, and even updating lists of pseudonyms and photographs used by fake Russian “brides-to-be.”

    These English-language warning-advisory sites have been online for years. It has long been known in the U.S. that fraudulent online marriage services operate out of Eastern Europe.

    I’d rather not suggest that the American gentleman who found himself scammed somehow deserved his suffering. He seems to be a psychological cripple with limited or no self-awareness who has never learned even the basic lessons of life. But, considering that, using the above English-language sites and just a little bit of common sense, he could easily have avoided being scammed, it’s hard to feel sorry for him. Perhaps from this he can get some insight into his own ignorance about the basics of human relationships, and from that insight, grow up a little.

    Also, Katya: Your ad hominem attacks on Natalia and her family don’t wash. Natalia is not to blame for online scams or for what happened to this particular gentleman. In my opinion, he actually has himself to blame, although that’s not to acquit the Russian woman and service who scammed him. But, with some effort on his part, he could easily have been forewarned, so he actually got what he paid for.

  7. First, there was no ad hominem attack. What I am saying is that Natalia’s experiences are limited by her environment, and her privileges mean she is not seeing the life of the ordinary Ukrainian. She doesn’t need to answer. I already know what the answer is. She is also very young and hence, the black and white view of the world still exists.

    I know there are anti scam sites. But that doesn’t mean that every woman who is a “scammer” is listed. Most scammers have no intention of marrying a Western man. They are looking for cash, or gifts, or good times.

  8. RE: Katya’s comment dated Sept. 15 at 3:10 a.m.

    First, I note your statement that, “There was no ad hominem attack,” and I assume that you mean that you did not intend for your statements to be understood as an ad hominem attack. If so, I’ll take your word for it.

    But I’ve noted that Natalia’s online critics, if they’re women, frequently charge Natalia with being “privileged” in some form or another, as though whatever advantages Natalia enjoys in life somehow disable her from seeing the reality of other people’s lives.

    I would guess that, in Ukraine, Natalia does pass for privileged since she’s a naturalized U.S. citizen and an honors graduate of an elite American university. I would also assume that, in Ukraine, anyone who is fluent in English and has access to the Internet is in fact privileged, so both you and Natalia can be called “privileged” Ukrainians in that regard.

    But just as your privileges, whatever they might be, don’t disable you from seeing the realities of life for the Ukrainians whom you call “ordinary,” neither do Natalia’s privileges disable her from seeing and trying to understand the lives of Ukrainians who live outside her own ‘zone of privilege,’ whatever that might be.

    I don’t know how familiar Natalia is with life in rural Ukraine. I do know, from following Natalia’s blog, that she makes every effort she can to understand the lives of disadvantaged Ukrainians and to see life from their point of view.

    I should add that, since I’ve never met Natalia and have never been to Ukraine, I have no idea how Natalia’s “environment” or “experiences” could disable her from understanding other Ukrainians. That’s why I never claim that Natalia doesn’t know what she’s talking about, when she reports about conditions in Ukraine.

    But I note that you yourself seem confident enough in your knowledge of what Natalia’s “environment” and “experiences” have actually been, to the point that you feel you can safely dismiss Natalia’s comments as being based on ignorance. Unless you know Natalia personally, I don’t see how you can be certain that you know Natalia’s “experiences” well enough to dismiss her comments.

    As to Natalia’s seeing things in black and white: It’s odd that you would say that, since, on this blog, Natalia usually takes a very nuanced view of other people’s lives and occupations, especially the lives and occupations of people less fortunate than herself.

    And to return to the scammed American husband, although you didn’t mention him personally in your response: Even though not every Russian scammer is listed online, any American who has the financial resources to “buy” a bride online can be expected to have the intellectual resources to perform the same due diligence that he would perform before buying a house, car, shares of stock, etc., especially considering that multiple anti-scam sites are available online. And again, that’s not to acquit the Russian woman and service who scammed him. But in America, the Latin phrase “Caveat emptor” (i.e., “Let the buyer beware!”) expresses the Anglo-American legal principle that, in any transaction, the buyer assumes most of the risk, as long as it is not undue risk. This American suffered no undue risk, since he had ample opportunity to research this investment and prevent his being scammed. He simply didn’t make use of his opportunity and resources to prevent his being cheated. So as I said in my initial comment on this thread, he actually got what he paid for.

  9. What I am saying is that Natalia’s experiences are limited by her environment, and her privileges mean she is not seeing the life of the ordinary Ukrainian.

    I mean this in the best possible way: you know nothing about my environment, who I interact with, who my friends and relatives are, where I’ve been, where I am, and where I’m going. End of discussion.

    She doesn’t need to answer. I already know what the answer is.

    You’re right, I don’t need to answer. Because I don’t need validation from you.

    Concern-trolls who log in from Canada and derail a conversation about men who go to purchase relationships in poor countries by screaming “BUT YOU DON’T KNOW HOW ORDINARY UKRAINIANS LIVE!!!” are really, really not the sort of people whose agreement, on any issue, I would seek. You may say, “not all of those men are bad.” And I would agree. Not all. I don’t issue blanket statements, unlike you. But, as I said up above, men who approach women from a mercantile perspective and then are shocked to be outwitted at their own game, and furthermore go on to talk about how THEIR concerns are more important that the concerns of human-trafficking victims, are sexist, racist scum.

    Now, stop flattering yourself with this whole “you must care about what I think of you and your entire life experience (which I, in my infinite wisdom, have figured out).” And cry about these poor wee wittle men to someone who cares.

  10. I am not a “concern troll”. That would indicate I have a phony concern about you, and I do not. I wish you the best in life, but your life is yours to live. As for your background, it does make a difference because you will not have been exposed to the grinding poverty and humiliation that most Ukrainians experience all the time.

    And yes, I am a Ukrainian (and, I will add, not a naturalized Canadian). When you log in from the US or elsewhere, are somehow “less” Ukrainian?

    My point is that the urban experience of Kyiv is far different from the experience of someone in Chernihiv, or Sumy, or Poltava. These are regions I visit regularly. To see the destruction, the emptiness, in all respects, from physical to spiritual, and what people will do to each other is something I thought would change as we moved away from our past. It hasn’t. That was my point. It is no different in Russia, at least not away form the big cities.

    In Soviet times, these same types of women married men from cities to escape. Now, they have new targets. It is something I don’t think Westerners truly understand.

    Poeschl, first, English is not as uncommon in Ukraine as you suspect, but most English is not completely fluent.

    I reject the notion that all men are buying a wife. Many are looking for love, often after a lifetime of disappointment or loneliness. Now, perhaps a fool marrying someone 30 years younger deserves his fate. Perhaps someone who cannot handle a woman in his own country because he is looking for a docile mate (in which case, he will be disappointed with most Ukrainian brides) deserves that fate. But these are not always the cases in these marriages. Many of these individuals do not deserve this. That was my point. To suggest that every man with a FSU bride is buying a wife is not accurate.

    Similarly, I reject the notion the original poster made that every FSU is trying to scam a man. Many of these marriages do not last because of cultural differences, or unsuitable temperments, or because strangers often learn they cannot live together.

    I just find the attack on him rather one sided.

  11. You stated:

    But, as I said up above, men who approach women from a mercantile perspective and then are shocked to be outwitted at their own game, and furthermore go on to talk about how THEIR concerns are more important that the concerns of human-trafficking victims, are sexist, racist scum.

    You are making an assumption that these men approach women from a mercantile perspective. That is a big leap in logic. Do you know that? In every case? How can you know what is in a man’s heart? How do you know some man, thinking with his dick, did not fall madly in love, or at least in lust, with a young woman who showed him affection? How do you know his vanity did not make him believe this beautiful creature returned his affections?

  12. Katya, your posts on here are pretty disingenuous. You lecture me on MY privilege but don’t see the humour in doing so while not exactly owning up to your own. You throw out some pretty big assumptions about my life, family, and my experiences in my former country of residence, and try to bait me into challenging them, so that I reveal more personal information or so that I must convince you of my “authentic” status before I am “allowed” to speak about these issues (a supremely creepy tactic often used by perverts and stalkers online). You also repeatedly mis-characterize my position. Perhaps if you had asked me a couple of honest questions, we could have had a dialogue. But the way it stands, you just have me creeped out.

    Creeps are trolls. Trolls aren’t welcome.

    P.S. Before you go, take that “vanity” thing and try to examine in through the lens of prejudice. Who knows what you might find? And I’m saying this as someone who know several couples who found genuine companionship like this.

  13. You people have WAAAAAAAaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands! Why don’t you all get jobs or something? Seriously! Get a job!

  14. Oh the notorious cry of sex tourists about the evil fsu women LOL. If I had a penny every time I heard such story LOL. Like they say: you can’t shop for meat in supermarket style and avoid arriving at the check out counter. And I keep telling the loosers: wana be safe? Then stop abusing your financial power in developing countries and date your local feminists … if they will look at you that is LOL

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