Just so they can have their “I told you so” moment?
The fact that Ginmar is gleefully reporting that Ren had her nose broken 4 times as the result of her job, then accusing Ren of lying when she points out that this isn’t the case, makes you wonder. Few have called Ginmar out for blaming the victim, or for speaking over Ren’s experience (which should be READ, I agree), and Ren’s own response to Ginmar didn’t show up (ironically, people who claim that the wrong kind of woman invites assault on herself have no problems posting). {UPD} Ok, looks like there were moderation issues, and now people are talking. It’s a good thing too. I mean, not that everyone loves one another, but at least we’re talking.
I know people who express overt or covert hope that something horrible will happen to me as the result of living in the Middle East, people to whom I am a “whore” and/or a “sell-out.” I’ve had to socialize with such people. Ick.
So having had that analogous experience, I can say one thing about it: it hurts. I doesn’t hurt in the way that the perpetrators want it to hurt, it doesn’t make you go, “wow, I have seen the light. I am scum! Bless you, kind saviour, for delivering me from my abject stupidity! I shall kiss your nobly unmanicured toes and dedicate a shrine to you in my garage and sacrifice a sex pozzie sparklefeminist in your honour upon every Midsummer’s Eve (it being bikini season and all)! Oh, that I may wash away my horriible sins in the blood of the unrighteous!”
Rather, it hurts in the sense that you really, really feel another person wishing you evil. I don’t think thoughts are immaterial in and of themselves, and I think that when those thoughts are expressed into words, they become even more powerful. We know the definition of hate-speech. And what’s being expressed against Ren over yonder is pure hate.
Shouldn’t someone point out that, perhaps, it isn’t healthy to drag Ren and Ren’s various body parts into every single discussion that remotely touches upon dancers and sex-workers? I realize Ginmar’s been through some serious shit, but so have a lot of other people, and not all of them are busy slandering and slut-shaming and victim-blaming and speaking over another woman’s head. As I already pointed out, feminist in-fighting can be rather fun, but not necessarily for good reasons.
Personally, I’m not going to tiptoe around someone’s pain if the person in question is deliberately hurting others.
Ren was abused by another woman, which resulted in two of her injuries (the other two being accidents). Using a case of domestic violence to score a cheap point is not feminist, neither are any of the other behaviours I have listed feminist as well.
Once again, we’re back to this:
Some women are more equal than others. One woman’s pain is more valid and noble than another’s. A woman is never responsible for being raped or beaten… except when she is.
Natalia A. 
Surely violence of any kind should be condemned? Regardless of the individual’s occupation, gender, location, or life choices, such actions cannot be tolerable.
A while back I linked to Renegade Evolution’s site and it makes for unique reading; what baffles is why, if her scribblings irk certain readers, do they return to condemn? It’s quite a low shot.
one would think.
but yes. it’s just plain old hate over there. and that disturbs me.
I mean, I posted a picture of my ass in Hustler underwear and they’re STILL talking about her! WTF?
Seriously, Sarah…your ass is WAY more porny than my nose!
And now Nat here is being accused of making blanket assumption untrue statements or something….but…
She’s right. At least with a few of them, Gin main among that few…say it outright or not, things have been said (my memory is long and rarely wrong, proof could be found in a matter of minutes) that truly lead me to believe that our hostess is dead on the mark here. All sorts of “well some day, when something shitty happens to her, she’ll come crawling on bended knee looking for us REAL FEMINISTS to Help Her…” and the constant repeat of this shit? Well yeah, feels a little too gleeful. I do often feel as if some of them would love to see something truly shitty-that could be solely pegged on my job- happen to me, that I would then repent and take my “we told you so’s” like a good little beaten victim fool, and all that other shit.
It’s never gonna happen. Some asshat could gut me in an alley and I’d still never end up weeping on Gin’s shoulder…’cause in her own way, she’s just as hateful and abusive as that theoretical asshole. I mean, taking the history of my nose, ffs, totally lying about it, then using it as a “stripping is bad” tale to score points? Pretty shitty.
Hell, I deal with plenty of shitty things every day. Only, they don’t come from sex biz patrons like Gin so desperately wants and needs, they come from people like Gin. End of story.
seriously, the day I would go to the likes of ginmar for comfort and succor is the day Hitler and Jim Jones start handing out ice skates. especially since one gets the strong impression that she wants such a scenario -not- because she’d have the slightest intention of actually providing any such, but because the gloating would be oh so sweet…
Christ, Natalia, you’re being dishonest. Ren Ev has lied about numerous other matters before. I think the part about fractures is evident as being separate from the part about the lies. If anybody wishes ill on anyone, it’s Ren Ev. The bile she throws at Radfems has been continuous and vile. At least be honest. I suppose if you look for what you what to find, you find it.
“Hell, I deal with plenty of shitty things every day. Only, they don’t come from sex biz patrons like Gin so desperately wants and needs, they come from people like Gin. End of story.”
And that’s the bottom line, isn’t it? When did the ideology, the politics, the “feminism” become more important than women? When did that happen? Some people need to get some perspective, seriously.
Then again, your reading list includes all the standard anti radfems. Why am I not surprised.
Couldn’t give a shit if you approve this or not. I’m sure it’ll receive the standard BD ranting screed. Ta.
Gin, if you want to think that Ren and I are simply being dishonest (for whatever weird reason), then there’s nothing I can do about that. And you’re right about me not being a fan of the radical feminists, at the very least, not most of the radical feminists who also blog. The ones I’ve met offline were usually pretty cool. And it probably has a lot to do with being face-to-face, without any of the misunderstandings that arise when people talk to each other from behind their computers.
Gin- You know what? Until you can start proving all these lies, you need to stop making the accusation. The methods via which I ended up with my nose broken? You totally made that up and lied about it, why not own up to it? And unless you can prove my alleged lies, stop accusing me of lying. You wanna hate me, what I do, what I say, whatever, fine by me, I’m no fan of yours either, but at least be fucking honest about it. I can prove your dishonesty. So yeah, quit telling everyone to be honest when you yourself aren’t, and throw out accusations towards all the other “liars” with zero proof.
Oh, and quit throwing my fucking name out in every single conversation that involves anything even remotely sex work like, and maybe, just maybe, we’ll never have to engage in this sort of shit again…which would be fucking ideal in my humble opinion.
Oh, and that stunt you pulled over at IBTP? How my own words about my own life and experiences cannot be trusted? Fucking lovely, really, and not at all feminist…attitudes just like that are the ones that keep people from speaking when they’ve been abused…especially sex workers…because no one will believe them.
So why don’t you fucking own that and all of your other extensive bullshit for a change???
There’s an old Soviet joke that comes to mind (I will paraphrase):
A wolf is walking through the forest, when all of a sudden, a hysterical rabbit runs smack into him.
Wolf: “Hey rabbit, WTF?!”
Rabbit: “Shit, man, shit, shit, shit. We have to run away, far away, yo. Did you hear the latest news from NKVD [the original KGB]? They’re rounding up all camels and shooting them, dude!”
Wolf: “Um… What the hell does it have to do with us?”
Rabbit: “Just try proving to them that you’re not a camel!”
See, Ren, you can’t prove you’re not a camel to some people. They’re going to view you as a lying bitch because viewing you as anything else might force them to challenge or at least expand their own beliefs.
And we can’t have that.
Oh, and I’ll freely admit I say a lot of nasty things about SOME rad fems, but lets not pretend for a second that ain’t a two way street.
Gin –
“The bile she throws at Radfems has been continuous and vile. ”
– Are you KIDDING me with that? After what you’ve come out with it’s a wonder you’ve got the bloody nerve! Shit, you want to see some of the stuff written about her. But, nah, you’re probably blind to it.
“Then again, your reading list includes all the standard anti radfems.”
– LOL. Shit, you’ve not got a clue, have you?
I have “a standard,” now? garsh. well–I guess I do, come to that. standards, anyway.
It’s really not that hard to understand, ginmar, even for you, if you wanted to. fortunately, none of us is going to be holding our breath until you type the magic words:
“You’re right. I shouldn’t have said -that-. I apologize.”
maybe sometime after the Rapture and/or the much vaunted Revolution.
oh, “that” specifically being a) dragging her broken nose into a conversation that had nothing to do with it in the first place b) misrepresenting how it happened for your own ends, as everyone including RE herself, has said very clearly now.
and no, it isn’t separate from the idea that RE “lies.” Are you saying she’s lying about what happened to her own damn nose or aren’t you?
belle- That’s exactly what she’s saying. I mean, apparently, I’ve lied about all kinds of shit…but no one is willing to say what, exactly, because you know, it is real easy to fling shit at people and never back it up, right? And really, I mean, after that infamous fucking thread over at her place, you know the one, where AntiPrincess got trashed while being pregnant, as did her then unborn son, and where all kinds of “we never blame the women” shit was flung at me, and Mr.E, who, oh, really has nothing to do with any of this…where I was called stupid, and let’s see, lots of speculation about my age and viability in my business was flying about, and…
yeah, Gin’s a stellar human being. And while I never really thought so before, I am beginning to also think a coward.
I love people who can’t ever admit when they are wrong, whine about how beat up they get when all they do is fucking throw shit at anyone who doesn’t abase themselves and give proper worship, and calls other people liars and whatnot when they’ve turned the process into a fine art, who call other people obsessed when they can’t make it through a topic that might, scantly, in a very distant way, have something to do with the evil stripping and porn without dragging me into it and slagging me because…well…maybe it’s been just a few too many weeks since the last time they did it…
And then have the nerve to bitch about ‘us’ calling them hairy fat lesbians or something when they’ve typed the words Ms. Plastic Tits…
It must be nice to be soooo fucking special!
oh, right, gin’s probably not darkening your doorstep again, N. That’s okay: I think I can write her response for her at this point:
–wait, wait, I bet I can channel it:
“Fuck you, BD. RE lies about [something that is a) of marginal if any relevance to the situation at hand b) an allusion to yet another dwama from the Pleistocene era that Gr’s never forgiven or forgotten, c) nearly unrecognizable in her version anyway], and all of you coo over her bullshit. Oh, and [yet another person whose name had heretofore not been dragged into this, did something else of completely obscure relevance to everyone except ginmar]. How come no one ever says anything to HER, huh? Oh I know, because [jawdroppingly offensive and completely inappropriate insult/revelation about someone else’s personal shit that also has fuckall to do with the situation]. Not that I expect anything better from you. You hate Me! You hate radfems! You hate people who type with my font! You want me dead! YOU owe ME an apology. You OWE ME. [last scattershot round at everyone in the immediate vicinity]”
Wow. I’m a newbie to the online world of feminism, so maybe I’m just not familiar with some back story, but all this drama reminds me of what I’ve read about the spouses and children of abusers. Apparently, the victims carry surprisingly little animosity for their abuser, but instead project the abuse onto each other. The victims somehow transfer it in their minds, so that they feel abused by their fellow victims instead of their actual abuser. They then do a lot of fighting against each other rather than uniting against their abuser. This is, of course, very useful for the abuser.
The people I’m seeing here seem to be emulating this to a T, with the whole of a sexist society standing in for the abuser. And I’m shocked and horrified and depressed now. I was definitely not prepared for this when I googled “feminism.”
“And that’s the bottom line, isn’t it? When did the ideology, the politics, the “feminism” become more important than women? When did that happen? Some people need to get some perspective, seriously.”
And Debi for the win.
Because it’s totally OK to slag off women for whatever we can think of, so long as they’re the Wrong Type of women…yeah, I can think of where that attitude comes from.
“I think I can write her response for her at this point:”
Seriously. Shorter Ginmar: Blah blah blah fuck you sex poxes, blah blah blah stupid college girl, blah blah blah Renegade Evolution said die under a bus, blah blah blah belledame is mean, blah blah blah none of you could hack it in the army anyway, bet you won’t publish this, screw you guys I’m going home, the end.