Amanda Marcotte Explains It All

And I like it [for the especially clueless – I am not a fan of Amanda’s style of prose – I AM glad she decided to step up to the plate and tell her version of events, even if I don’t agree with the majority of her arguments]

I could argue with Amanda until I foam at the mouth – over a number of points – but I will also argue, also until I foam at the mouth, that the way she was treated was despicable.

The phrase “dirty politics” doesn’t do the current state of affairs justice. It should be “filthy politics,” “choking-on-my-own-vomit politics,” at the very least. And, as I said earlier, I don’t know if I could handle that sort of thing.

I’d rather be raked over the coals for a work of fiction I wrote.

And I’ll be careful what I wish for, yes.

102 thoughts on “Amanda Marcotte Explains It All

  1. “…that the way she was treated was despicable.”

    Oh yeah. Since when can’t a woman use ugly vulgarities and deliberately injurious imagery to smear whole communities without drawing complaints? Another powerful voice for humanity, in the gulag.

    What a hypocrite.

    By the way, Natalia. You get an A-plus for subservience. Hope your need for approval outweighs any need for dignity.

  2. Heh. I read it. Not only did the devil make her do it, the dog ate her homework as well. I am sooo happy that people like her are the public face of your hate movement.

    Bravo, Natalia. You pick your icons well. And watching Marcotte abjectly apologizing and reversing her stated views, all for the chance at playing with the big boys…well, that’s just icing on the cake.

  3. Yes, because saying that death threats and hate-mail to the tune of “you should be raped, you ugly hag” are bad = I agree with everything Amanda says, and the way she says it.

    Do brush up on your critical reading skills, dearie.

    Oh, but I AM sorry – you think she’s making it up. Or that she deserves it. Or whatever – I can’t keep track of your blather very well these days, you’ll have to forgive me.

    ***By the way, Natalia. You get an A-plus for subservience. Hope your need for approval outweighs any need for dignity.***

    I am truly humbled by this characteristic from an anonymous troll.

  4. “you think she’s making it up. Or that she deserves it.”
    The first, absolutely. Although I’m sure that once it was pointed out that Edwards certainly would have called in federal authorities to investigate death threats made against his campaign staff (as required by law), her fans were quickly making arrangements for anonymous death threats. The second, absolutely not. She no more deserves death threats than the Duke Lacrosse team (or calls for castration from your feminist friends who were quite public and unashamed in demanding it). And I condemn BOTH, do your friends?
    PS: So now your outrage is not about “the silencing of a woman”, eh? It’s about nasty language and threats?
    I think this calls for yet another mea culpa to appease the “we don’t care about you being raped, Natalia” feminists at the Marcotte Team.
    Better be quick. They might think you’ve grown a spine.

  5. I’ll be thankful that my spine is the only body part Anonymous Troll is obsessed with. God knows, other bloggers have it worse.

    Recall Donohue’s glee in silencing women he doesn’t like – Amanda wouldn’t be the first. It’s his problem, not mine.

    Oh and ginmar is not part of the Marcotte Team, silly. The way I was treated was disgusting – but as I already wrote, I’m used to being treated in disgusting ways. It took Cathy Young to bring the point home – and I’m glad she was there to do it.

  6. “What you said.”…Natalie.

    and Melissa got dragged into this steaming pile of bilge as well; have something to say about her too, Mikethingie? was she perhaps not properly sympathetic enough to the poor little put-upon lacrosse players? is -that- what’s got your jockeys in a wad? for fuck’s sake. it’s -over,- the Duke thing, or it may as well be. you may now get back to your regularly scheduled program of slut-shaming, class privilege and racist, misogynist crap without even the barest twinge of ever getting as much as a slap on the wrist for it. or at least fantasizing that you, too, might someday enjoy that degree of privilege. and blame everyone else in the world if you’re -still- not happy.

    and hey, i hear the lacrosse season’s gonna be -kickass- this year.

    thank fuck for people who know what’s important in this life.

    “make it up.” right, because clearly there aren’t any completely disturbed, hateful people even trolling at the level of near-anonymous bloggers, much less swarms of people who might come crawling out of the woodwork when people on -nationally broadcast “news” programs- essentially yell, “Sic ’em!” death threats -never- come out of such dynamics, oh CHRIST no.

    and, no one ever follows up on such things, either. just ask Alan Berg.

    asshole.

  7. “slut-shaming, class privilege and racist, misogynist crap”

    Well, you win the argument, no doubt. And may I salute your critical memorizing skills.

    “Recall Donohue’s glee in silencing women he doesn’t like – Amanda wouldn’t be the first.”

    Oh please, Natalia. He is demanding Edwards fire a hateful smear-spewing troll-with-a-website as a campaign spokesperson. We both can follow dozens of stories each week where womens groups and feminist spokespersons demand the firing and censure of men and women who “speak out of turn” about womens issues. How many men have lost their jobs for a ribald joke overheard by a lawsuit hungry women employee? The President of Harvard caused feinting spells among feminist spokespeople and lost his job because of it.
    The hypocrisy is just overwhelming and listening to you cry about Marcotte being condemned by the very groups she attacks is just laughable.
    Like I said. Long live Marcotte. And long may your hypocrisy be so obvious to all.

    PS. Save your “troll” efforts. I post more rational material and invite serious replies more than anyone here, and everyone else is anonymous as well.

  8. *** listening to you cry***

    You wish I was crying, don’t you?

    ***about Marcotte being condemned by the very groups she attacks is just laughable.***

    Um no, there’s a difference between being “condemned” and told that one is an ugly hag that needs to be raped and killed. Try again.

    *** I post more rational material and invite serious replies more than anyone here***

    Please don’t flatter yourself.

    ***and everyone else is anonymous as well.***

    Sorry, no, not everyone.

  9. As for Donohue – he has been on a kick about “silencing” people before.

    Personally, I believe that he should be as free to criticize Amanda as I am.

    But that’s not the whole story, now, is it?

  10. “Um no, there’s a difference between being “condemned” and told that one is an ugly hag that needs to be raped and killed.”

    Um, excuse me but are you claiming that Donohue, who your silencing remark specifically referenced, said anything like that?

    You do this over and over, Natalia. You’re shameless in that regard. You rarely will address a very obvious double standard that you yourself mistakenly draw attention to, in this case, with overwrought remarks about the “silencing of a woman”. So now it’s not silencing a woman, it’s death threats against a woman by anonymous trolls (heh) that you ascribe to Donohue.
    Bravo, brave gender warrior. An A+ for selling out any pretensions of intellectual honesty.

    And yes, your right, not everyone. You do post your own name. I meant many of the others. Nice big gotcha, though!. (See how that honesty thing works?)

  11. Dear heart: some of us do not use “troll” to mean “anonymous poster”–as you note, many of us do not indeed use our real names, i never claimed to– but rather people who hang around where they’re clearly unwanted, with the sole intention of provocation.

    If the site owner says you’re a troll–guess what! You’re a troll. It means she doesn’t agree with your flattering self-assessment. It means -she doesn’t enjoy your presence, creep.-

  12. and while Donohue himself may not have made the death threats, i don’t notice him exactly speaking out against them either.

    Malkin has posted the real-life names and addresses of people on her website before; what is that if not an invitation to harassment? and yes, some people retaliated by printing her own name and address; and no, i don’t think that’s right, either. and, amazingly, some people on the -left- even said something to that effect, at the time. predictably however, all we heard from the bullying classes was pissing and moaning about help help MM was being repressed by the ev0l liberals. they’re not responsible for any of their -own- behavior, though. christ no.

    and for the record, i have had little love lost for AM myself, for precisely some of the same sort of boundary-violating behavior that is the root of my problem here. However, this is several orders of magnitude higher of sheer fucking cowardly evil, and i am firmly on her side on this one. and once again, Melissa=! Amanda. but hey, who’s counting.

  13. ***and for the record, i have had little love lost for AM myself, for precisely some of the same sort of boundary-violating behavior that is the root of my problem here. However, this is several orders of magnitude higher of sheer fucking cowardly evil, and i am firmly on her side on this one.***

    Yep. I’ve had similar feelings on the matter, b.

  14. So is mikem the cute-little-plastic-with-colored-hair type troll or the nasty-goat-eating-stands-under-a-bridge type troll? Can we debate this at length please?

  15. Being the consumate lurker I’ve been following the Amanda story from afar and I have to agree with your take. Amanda’s writing often demeans her opinions, to the point where even if I agree with what she writes I find myself wishing I didn’t. That said, no one deserves to deal with the crap that she and Melissa did. I’d rather she was still working for the Edwards campaign than deal with a reality in which it’s ok to start a hate mail campaign against low level staffers in order to hurt a candidate.

  16. “Malkin has posted the real-life names and addresses of people on her website before…”
    You refer, of course, to the real life names and addresses that the real life people *themselves* added to a PRESS RELEASE so that they could be contacted. Cry me a river about Malkin doing precisely what the real life people themselves were inviting people to do. (In a press release, to boot. Hah.)

    ” and while Donohue himself may not have made the death threats, i don’t notice him exactly speaking out against them either.”

    I bet he did if there were death threats. (Again, Edwards silence is deafening, isn’t it? Death threats against his campaign staff and he doesn’t call for the feds to protect or investigate. Damn!) I honestly don’t know for sure, to quote Donohue, but I bet if the issue came up, then he did condemn them. But is this a standard that we can apply across the board now?
    For instance, can we look at the big YAWN among the Duke 88 and Duke feminists at the “black rape privilege that exists at black fraternities on campus” and assume that black on white rape is a good rape or perhaps justified? Can we blame the same parties for fostering an atmosphere of rape privilege by not reacting with even 5% of the outrage they did at the Duke Lacrosse case?

    “***and for the record, i have had little love lost for AM myself, for precisely some of the same sort of boundary-violating behavior that is the root of my problem here. However, this is several orders of magnitude higher of sheer fucking cowardly evil, and i am firmly on her side on this one.***

    Anonymous “death threats” are convenient as hell for people caught spewing hateful and deliberately injurious smears against whole communities. If you are so immersed in critical memorizing skills that you have not seen that this, and anonymous death threats themselves, are not uncommon in the wide open world of the internet, well… But to be sure, they are wrong. But for some reason the same person who will be “on Marcotte’s side” *now* because of her new victimhood, will post the following about Malkin (who had to move her family, her children because of verified death threats): “[W]hat is that if not an invitation to harassment?”
    Your sincerity is underwhelming.

    As for trolls, Rann is one of the most consistently trollish commenters here with inane one line observations about butt plugs and the most recent commenter, making fun of disabled people etc.. And Natalia has already said that he is not a troll and is in fact welcome. So, a troll here is one who disagrees with the blogger and her supporters.

  17. “to start a hate mail campaign against low level staffers in order to hurt a candidate.”

    So actually quoting Marcotte’s posts and comments is a hate mail campaign?? Why don’t we just place a big sign around all “feminists” that says “Not responsible for what comes out of my mouth.”

  18. ***So, a troll here is one who disagrees with the blogger and her supporters.***

    My bullshit radar is going off, since Rann and I disagree on about 99% of issues out there.

    Unless the issue is spicy goat.

  19. Well, I’m not privy to your private conversations. I was talking about at this website. But, fair enough.
    The point is, Rann engages in much more of what is considered trollish behavior. So “troll” is, as one commenter said, whatever you want to say it is.

    So hey, the message is clear about racial rape privilege at Duke, eh? Do you see a difference, or just YAWN?

  20. So actually quoting Marcotte’s posts and comments is a hate mail campaign??

    Haven’t really been paying attention to mikey here before, but is he usually this incapable of reading comprehension? Or is he just going off what he siphons off of Malkin et al?

    Mike, there’s a definition for troll here. I must say, you perform admirably.

  21. Yes, a troll is what the website owner defines it to be, just as you say, mike.

    Natalia has said you’re a troll. So….

    Really, we’ve established this. As I said, it remains for us to figure out what type of troll you are. In the spirit of democracy, I say we put it to a vote.

  22. “Haven’t really been paying attention to mikey here before, but is he usually this incapable of reading comprehension? Or is he just going off what he siphons off of Malkin et al?”
    Laugh out loud. This is perfect. Kettle/black, plus the added bonus of not seeing it at all.
    And the “mikey”, why that’s just as original and effective a refutation as I have ever seen here. I’m humbled by the vast intellects I come up against here. You guys even recall the schoolyard stuff.

    And as always here at Natalia’s, no one wants to dare stand up for the “wrong” rape victim. Utterly pathetic and utterly typical. How brave of you girls! How manly of you men! I wonder how she feels seeing her sisters in solidarity react with such stunning silence.
    Sooner or later someone will step forward in shame and say something like “OK, that rape would be wrong too”. But not today, too busy, too afraid of being Natalia-ed.

  23. Natalia-ed, sounds kind of hot.

    Who’s the “wrong” rape victim now?

    The white girl who recently alleged rape in an off-East house?

    I agree with you – people have been oddly silent.

    I was going to write a long blog post about this – but I’ve scratched it for now.

    I work for Duke, remember?

  24. You work for Duke so you can’t write about Duke people not giving a shit about sexual assault? Eh?

    Few do, hence the need for publications like Saturday Night.

  25. Yeah, I remember. And just so you’ll know, I waited to see if you would post on it. You didn’t so I brought it up. The “usual suspects” don’t want to touch it. (And no, you are not a usual suspect. I remember.)

    “I was going to write a long blog post about this – but I’ve scratched it for now.

    I work for Duke, remember?”

    OK, if you are asking for some sympathy regarding job security, then you’ve earned that because of your previous courage and the resultant spanking from the bitches of Eastwick. If you are saying you shouldn’t comment, as an employee… Not so much.

  26. For the record, the alleged rapist was black, a jock, it was a party sponsored by a campus organization, a black fraternity. In other words, almost exquisitely inclusive of all the factors that put campus feminists into fainting spells and calls for castration of the accused, when the Duke Lacrosse team was the accused. Except for… (fill in anything you can think of except for race, really anything we can throw at it. Please.)

  27. Actually, no. There are a large number of sexual assaults (and rapes) on Duke’s campus each year. The vast majority go unreported and those that do are ignored everyone. I have _never_ seen any calls from castration from campus feminists.

    Just for the record, the ‘castrate’ sign at the pots and pans protest was held up by four people from Greensboro who had nothing to do with Duke.

  28. >

    ***and for the record, i have had little love lost for AM myself, for precisely some of the same sort of boundary-violating behavior that is the root of my problem here. However, this is several orders of magnitude higher of sheer fucking cowardly evil, and i am firmly on her side on this one.***

    Yep. I’ve had similar feelings on the matter, b.
    >

    also, i think Melissa is the bee’s knees, and the second and thirdhand spewage she’s been getting from all this makes me furious.

  29. “Um, I’m not asking for your sympathy.”
    I swear I knew you would react that way. I almost included a caveat to that effect. Lesson learned. Show you care and a real feminist will let you know you’ve done something wrong. Show you don’t care and you’re an unfeeling typical male. A+ for training.
    You got me, Natalia. You were in fact going to post a lengthy discussion about the relative silence, so I assume you are not involved in the issue (like a rape counselor to the girl or some other role that requires you not to comment). It’s not about your job security. You’ve decided not to comment and not to explain why. That’s your right. I hope you are not just avoiding discussing an obvious black eye on the Duke women’s community.
    With respect (I know, you don’t care what people think) for your previous stand, I’ll “let you off the hook”. As for the Duke women’s community, they are looking like rape enablers of the most classic sort, by their own definition.

  30. mikem, what the fuck is your damage over the Duke thing? was this topic about -anything- to do with fucking Duke? do you go there? are you friends with the accused? do you feel some sort of deep soul-connection with them? were you traumatized by someone trying to castrate you with a lacrosse stick?

  31. There is no ‘relative silence’. Duke’s campus has never, ever been strong on sexual assault, no matter who was involved. The LAX case was the exception, not the rule.

  32. they are looking like rape enablers of the most classic sort, by their own definition.

    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

    Did you read the definition of a troll?

  33. “Just for the record, the ‘castrate’ sign at the pots and pans protest was held up by four people from Greensboro who had nothing to do with Duke.”

    What a relief! Just visiting feminists. But, uh, to recall the words of a previous commenter about Donohue, Duke feminists may not have held up the sign, but they didn’t condemn it either.

  34. >As I said, it remains for us to figure out what type of troll you are. In the spirit of democracy, I say we put it to a vote.>

    “Yes, but the question is, gentlemen, what -kind- of fools are they?”

    –the Far Side

  35. look, you incoherent little nosegoblin, this is the first i’ve even heard of the other rape case. quite possibly this has to do with, as noted above, this shit happens pretty frequently there? and not everyone is as obsessed with fucking Duke as you seem to be?

  36. “mikem, what the fuck is your damage over the Duke thing?”

    Are you serious? Do you only comment on events that fall within your geographic area, or that you have experienced directly yourself?
    WTF?

  37. “this is the first i’ve even heard of the other rape case.”

    Yeah. That’s the point, Einstein.

    Sheesh

  38. >will post the following about Malkin (who had to move her family, her children because of verified death threats): “[W]hat is that if not an invitation to harassment?”>

    No, fool. An invitation -by- her -to- harass the people whose names and addresses she spotlit. Not an invitation for others to eye-for-an-eye harass her. I already said I think that was fucked up, too.

  39. Um, mikem?

    1) SS and AM? the whole brouhaha? as in, the TOPIC, HERE? as opposed to fucking Duke? not in my “geographic area,” really

    2) It’s a big big big world out there, Sunny Jim. I asked you why, out of all the things in this wide wide world one could take an interest in, the goings-on at Duke University, and particularly the responses of feminists thereof, are what’s got you all up in a froth. Asking me in return, well, why -aren’t- YOU as obsessed as I am? not really a great answer.

  40. “I already said I think that was fucked up, too.”

    Yeah, and at the same time saying she brought it on herself by revealing the contents of a PRESS RELEASE, for revealing addresses that the “victims” themselves wanted publicized in a PRESS RELEASE.

  41. “what is that if not an invitation to harassment?”

    Try this, “what is that if not an invitation to rape?”

    You are a liar.

  42. also:

    >Since when can’t a woman use ugly vulgarities and deliberately injurious imagery to smear whole communities without drawing complaints?>

    “You’re the vulgarian, you fuck.”

    seriously, who’s groping for the smelling salts, here? “Ugly vulgarities?” You’re shitting me.

  43. Look, you stupid bastard, do you need me to stencil it on your forehead?

    AN INVITATION FOR HER TROGLODYTE READERS TO HARASS THE PEOPLE WHOSE NAMES SHE PUBLISHED.

  44. Yes, Melissa is making all of this up. She’s a castrating, delusional bitch, haven’t you heard?

    Oh, and Mike, do not talk to me about my fucking job security, OK? You are not remotely close to me, you do NOT know the position I am currently in, and if you keep trying to stick your nose into it – I’m going to boot you the hell off.

    Go harass someone else. Stick to the goddamn topic – or you’re out.

  45. ““You’re the vulgarian, you fuck.””
    Not my words, only an ignorant person would say that.

    ““Ugly vulgarities?” You’re shitting me.”

    This is what I love about posting here. Belle is seriously positing that Marcotte’s comments weren’t ugly or vulgar even though she would spit bullets if anyone used the imagery that Marcotte did to attack blacks or women or gays etc. (Any group she speaks up for.)

    On the other hand, Marcotte herself admitted that her words were hurtful and deliberate, although the “devil made her do it”.

    “what is that if not an invitation to harassment?”

    Try this, “what is that if not an invitation to rape?”

    Did you miss that? Still claiming to condemn her?

    Malkin drives you “ignorant bitches” (to use a Belle-speak) crazy, doesn’t she? You can see it. There is so much to despise about a strong independent woman who cares about women and men, isn’t there?

    Remember the words of Marcotte’s supporters: No one cares about you being raped, Natalia, if you care about the “menz”.
    Lovely people. Definitely want them well represented in politics.

  46. “if you keep trying to stick your nose into it – I’m going to boot you the hell off.”

    I was expressing sincere sympathy when I raised that issue, job security. Why are you angry?
    But, fair enough. I won’t raise your job security issue again.

    So your open discussions can only be about subjects you raise? And only for that thread, and not later.
    I’ve taken a lot of shots posting here, Natalia. Now you are fed up because I answer back?

  47. Oh mike, I *am* sorry – should I also invite you in when I take a shower, perhaps?

    This whole web-trawling I-am-just-a-humble-crusader-for-the-truth vigilante shtick is both old, invasive, and creepy.

    And don’t give me the “genuine sympathy” crap either – I told both you and Rann already that there are things that I won’t discuss. You can discuss them all you want – but don’t expect me to be your fucking monkey and jump up and down for you.

    Rann took the hint. Surely you won’t be outdone by Rann.

  48. “I was expressing sincere sympathy when I raised that issue, job security.”
    That’s the truth.

    “I told both you and Rann already that there are things that I won’t discuss.”

    OK, Natalia. I want to respect that, as far as prodding you (but not others) to discuss something you can’t or don’t wish to discuss. But it isn’t clear what those things are. You often discuss sexual violence, so it’s not that. If you mean this specific case, I already said I would not push it on you.

  49. “Yes, Melissa is making all of this up. She’s a castrating, delusional bitch, haven’t you heard?”

    I have no idea what this is about, nor who Melissa is other than, I guess, Marcotte’s likeminded blogger friend.

  50. “Being a disingenuous troglodyte isn’t “answering back”, sorry.”

    Heh, but calling someone a disingenuous troglodyte is!

    This is easy.

  51. So is mocking people when you have little or no information except what some conservative blogger told you. But then, you already knew that, right, bucko?

    And if you can’t tell, this isn’t some dispassionate debate we can trade rhetorical repartee on. This was a hit, on two women who were threatened with violence. You can make hypotheticals and make believe that they are lying, but that all, in the end, makes you (yep) a disingenuous troglodyte.

  52. “This was a hit, on two women who were threatened with violence.”

    It was a hit, eh? Care to relate what happened. How many shots? Don’t be ridiculous.
    I wonder how much outrage you would feel about two men, or even two women, who received nasty emails (and even verified death threats, like Malkin) if they wrote the same as Marcotte does, but about gays, or blacks, or women, or Muslims? Is it a hit job when a racist writes a filthy vulgar deliberately hurtful smear about blacks and then gets nasty emails and death threats?

    I think hate is wrong. Even when it comes from Marcottes of the world. Even when it comes from her victims. Can you say that also?

  53. Can you say that also?

    Well, sure. Death threats, though, are a bit more than calling people’s religion misogynist, and that’s all Amanda ever did.

    Granted, you’ve already admitted you know nothing about what happened, and yet, you feel it appropriate to wax pious about it. Did you read the definition of a troll?

  54. And just because you’re a disingenuous troglodyte, I’ll say it unequivocally:

    NO ONE deserves death threats. Even racists, even Malkin, even homobigots. When someone once wrote on a blog I read that they hoped homobigots got AIDS, I challenged them on it. I know what AIDS does, and I would not wish that on even the worst excuse for humanity.

    How many shots? Don’t be ridiculous.

    And yeah, this makes no sense. Death threats may not equate to being shot, but until you’re on the receiving end, who are you to judge? A privileged stain, that what, and I hope you crawl your way back to the rock you fester under.

  55. “Death threats may not equate to being shot, but until you’re on the receiving end, who are you to judge?”

    I have been. I have actually had a robber’s gun at my head three times (in four years of managing a take out place). It’s not something I take lightly.

    I think if Marcotte or her friend took any threats actually made against them seriously, they would have invited the police to investigate (like Malkin did). I think that any reasonable person would do the same.
    If so, then I would join anyone in condemning the threats. But being a victim doesn’t make a hatemonger like Marcotte into a sympathetic person. Her hate defines her, not the nasty emails she receives. Her supporters are trying to make a sympathetic creature out of a hateful sow. Forget it.

    No one is going to forget what she wrote, her abject apologies, followed by her unapologies afterwards. Nor will they forget Edwards for hiring her in the first place. It’s not just Christians who were, as Marcotte admits she intended, hurt by her gutter spew.

  56. I checked out your website. Just wondering if death threats against Bill Donohue are hits too and if you have sympathy for his situation. And now I no longer wonder why you said this: ” …calling people’s religion misogynist, and that’s all Amanda ever did.” Yeah, by your standards she was reasonable.

    “Bill Donohue can just take the catechism and shove it up his tight, pasty ass, because, seriously, from a person who knows how evil and manipulative and misogynist that racist institution is, Catholicism couldn’t hold a candle to Shakes’ Sis and Amanda when kingdom come.
    So yeah, you bigoted prick. Disagreeing with/Dissenting with/Speaking out against Catholicism is NOT NOT NOT Anti-Catholic bigotry. And truly, if hell exists, pucker up, baby, because you and Lucifer are going to have a face-to-face.”

    Well.

  57. Are you acquainted with Catholicism, mike? Read the Catechism? Ever read anything Donohue has said?

    And I challenge you to find where I made a death threat against Donohue. I highly doubt the Catechism would fit up his ass, given how tight it seems to be, and also, you and I seem to have different interpretations of what constitutes true hate. Had Donohue need something from me in order to live, I’d give it to him. If I were gay or a “secular Jew”, I doubt I would be given the same courtesy. Regardless, I never advocated his death.

    I also don’t believe in hell. He does. Going by Sweet Jesu a la Matthew 7, I’m certain that Donohue has erred egregiously and will not enter into heaven. I, however think heaven and hell are fairy tales, and I don’t profess the Christian faith.

    As to “hatemonger”, well, that word does not describe, in any way, Melissa, yet you think it’s okay that she was given the treatment she was given because you’re too ignorant to know whether or not she’s telling the truth. Whatever man. You want to argue tu quoque, then fine. I’m through with fallacies, and I have better things to do than to deal with trolls.

  58. “Are you acquainted with Catholicism, mike? Read the Catechism? Ever read anything Donohue has said?”

    Yep, yep, and nope. But I’m sure he never said anything as hateful as you or Marcotte. Know why? Because there would be a stink heard round the world if a Catholic spokesperson ever attacked a community, gay or otherwise, the way you and Marcotte attack groups you hate. You are a hatemonger and the word may not mean much to you but it does to millions of anti-hate activists. You are a poster boy.
    I’ve never commented on Melissa, just Marcotte. But since she and Marcotte are spoken in the same breath, I assume she is more of Marcotte.
    “You want to argue tu quoque”.
    Nope, just you. Not you too. Scamper off now, bigot, you have been outed. Thanks for bringing your sanctimonious hatred to light by playing the voice of love bit so badly.
    And please, don’t raise children. We have enough hate in the world.

  59. Muahaha! Ok, mike. Well, when Catholicism ends its tyrannical attempts to snatch the rights of women away from them and set control of a woman’s body in a person who is not her, then I will listen to you. But first, read and understand what you defend. And try not to think of it from the misogynist perspective. One could just as easily call you a bigot.

    Did you catch when I said I don’t believe in hell? Did you catch where I implied that I believe that when Donohue dies, when you die, when I die, NOTHING HAPPENS. Me saying go to hell is the same as me saying asshole. That you think of it as an insult is merely a construct based on your hold to superstition. If you so thought.

    Histrionics aside, I may raise children, but I doubt it. If I do, I’d adopt. And I’d teach that child pacifism and rational thought. Which includes an end to the idea of hell and heaven and worrying about a non-existent afterlife. Instead, I’d teach a focus on people and their rights. When people attempt to take those rights away (read:Catholicism and Donohue), they are no longer working towards the aims of equality, and they wish to subjugate people. Fight oppression whereever it exists.

    And if I have to curse and say go to hell, well so be it. But always be non-violent, and never advocate violence. Show me where I have done so, and I’ll accept your assessment. And bear in mind. There is no hell. No devil. No God. No.

  60. “Well, when Catholicism ends its tyrannical attempts to snatch the rights of women away from them and set control of a woman’s body in a person who is not her.”

    Oh sure. The only type people who think killing a growing baby is wrong would be tyrannical misogynists. Cause no reasonable person could object to extinguishing a helpless life. Cause no sane person could be horrified by the thought of sticking a pipe in an emerging baby’s skull at birth. It’s all about those evil people who think taking an innocent life is wrong. The horror of such hatred towards women. Just shameless. You could make the Final Solution sound like a moral duty.

    “Histrionics aside”

    Laugh my ass off. After that bigoted rant of yours, you are a poster boy for hypocrisy as well.

    And don’t forget about that kidney you would give to save that ‘evil and manipulative and misogynist and racist Bill Donohue’.

  61. “Fight oppression whereever it exists”

    Well, let’s test your principles.
    Should a man be required to submit to economic servitude to support a child he never wanted, never chose to have? Is ProChoice for women/No Choice for men consistent with equality and human rights?
    Any objection to men having the same rights as women, or are they subservient to a womans right not bear the burden of her choice?

    I’m on pins and needles waiting to be proven wrong about so called “equality”.

  62. Well, one can create any delusions one likes, and you perform admirably, but they are still that. Delusions.

    Where have I advocated violence against people*? You know nothing about most abortions, since most of them have nothing to do with a head. A blastocyst has no head and it’s just a clump of cells. Bring your misogyny however you please, on the backs of people who have experience real oppression or however you deem adequate, but a clump of cells has no rights that I don;t have, and I can’t take over you body if I need it to nourish me. And besides, the “holocaust” of the unborn occurs naturally. Miscarriage, etc. Nah, knowing the statistics, which show that women given more options abort less, I’d rather live in an equal society, as opposed to you scornful one-sided society, where to question and indeed reject your beliefs is tantamount to bigotry, which is very real and affects people everyday. Privileged people like to think that they have been persecuted, but when you begin with a culture where you’ve killed off your dissenters (the Catholic Church), don’t expect a lot of sympathy when you continue to try to assert you dominance.

    *Read: People who have been born.

  63. Yeah, a fully formed, full term baby is a clump of cells. A nine month old, living being is a non entity and a woman who kills the child is just exercising her right to shed some cells.
    I’ll take the child’s rights over the woman’s. You, you’ll do anything, slander anybody and anything that takes such a “despicable” stance.
    But I don’t think you care about women or children or men. Your own words belie any attempt to paint yourself as a non violent person. In no other context would yours or Marcotte’s ugly tirades be seen by you or anyone else as anything but what it is, a hateful, bigoted attack on beliefs and people who don’t buy the “baby is not a baby until a woman says so”.

  64. Mikem, please tell me you dont live in America or you work nights or something. Because you just spent an entire Friday night into Saturday morning arguing (poorly) on someone else’s website. That’s not healthy.

    To be somewhat on topic, it’s entirely posible to disagree with Amanda’s writing and to thing she is rude and still find the emailed threats of death and rape to be disgraceful.

  65. Eh, Mike has his own reasons for being here. I don’t know what they are, and I don’t really care, but I’m sure that to him, they’re entirely valid.

    ***it’s entirely posible to disagree with Amanda’s writing and to thing she is rude and still find the emailed threats of death and rape to be disgraceful.***

    Bingo.

    Oh yeah, the holocaust thing is puzzling to me as well. What’s next? Stalin? Gulags?

    Bitch, make me a sandwich!

  66. “Oh yeah, the holocaust thing is puzzling to me as well. ”

    I didn’t compare the Holocaust to abortion. I said that someone (and that’s most pro abortionists) who can state with a straight face that only misogynists and evil people could possibly be horrified by abortion could find a way to argue the same way about the Final Solution (the ultimate horror in modern times).
    I think it’s an apt remark. Over and over again, abortion supporters resort to painting pro-life activists as evil people, as if defending a helpless life is just beyond the pale. As if only a nut would think a nine month PBA to be infantcide.

    How is it that Natalia puts it? Its not a baby till I call it a baby.

  67. Ahem

    There are Jews in the world.
    There are Buddhists.
    There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
    There are those that follow Mohammed, but
    I’ve never been one of them.

    I’m a Roman Catholic,
    And have been since before I was born,
    And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
    They’ll take you as soon as you’re warm.

    You don’t have to be a six-footer.
    You don’t have to have a great brain.
    You don’t have to have any clothes on. You’re
    A Catholic the moment Dad came,

    Because

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    Let the heathen spill theirs
    On the dusty ground.
    God shall make them pay for
    Each sperm that can’t be found.

    Every sperm is wanted.
    Every sperm is good.
    Every sperm is needed
    In your neighbourhood.

    Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
    Spill theirs just anywhere,
    But God loves those who treat their
    Semen with more care.

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,…
    …God get quite irate.

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is good.
    Every sperm is needed…
    …In your neighbourhood!

    Let the Pagan spill theirs
    O’er mountain, hill, and plain.
    God shall strike them down for
    Each sperm that’s spilt in vain.

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is good.
    Every sperm is needed
    In your neighbourhood.

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite iraaaaaate!

  68. Splitters!

    And, hey mike, read up a bit on how many abortions take place and the reasons behind them. PBAs are done, for the vast majority, as emergency procedures in order to save the life of the mother. Most abortions occur in the first trimester. Granted, I don’t expect you to read anything, as that would be a first, it seems.

  69. “PBAs are done, for the vast majority, as emergency procedures in order to save the life of the mother.”

    Absolute bullshit. Doctors themselves say that the majority are “mother’s remorse” and the procedure is not rare,

    Nice way to prove your bigotry, by the way.
    What a poster boy you are for the hate that drives the Marcotte crowd.

    Pro-abortionists. They’re the ones that really care!!

  70. One of the things I enjoy about commenting at websites is outing phonies like Goff. Mr. Goff, all sweet light and reason: ‘Amanda just thinks the Catholic church is misogynist, that’s all she’s saying’ and ‘I’ld give my kidney to save Donohue’s life’.

    But after I post his own words from his blog to show what he really is, he knows the game is up and feels free to lay out his hate and bigotry for all to see.

  71. ““You’re the vulgarian, you fuck.””
    Not my words, only an ignorant person would say that.>>

    It’s from “A Fish Called Wanda.” You sort of remind me of the character who said the line. It amused me to repeat it. As does use of the word “vulgar” in general; it’s just so, well, -dainty.-

    ““Ugly vulgarities?” You’re shitting me.”

    This is what I love about posting here. Belle is seriously positing that Marcotte’s comments weren’t ugly or vulgar even though she would spit bullets if anyone used the imagery that Marcotte did to attack blacks or women or gays etc. (Any group she speaks up for.)>>

    No, Belle is making fun of you for getting your delicate jockeys in a wad over “vulgarity,” period.

    And -what- is what you love about posting here? People mocking you and thinking you’re an ignorant haddock? Is it -really- such a rare experience for you that you have to stick around -this- place in particular? I find that hard to believe, somehow.

  72. >One of the things I enjoy about commenting at websites is outing phonies>

    To whom do you imagine yourself to be “outing the phonies?”

    (suddenly having a flash of poor little Cartman at his stuffed animal tea party, wherein even the teddy bear tells him he’s a loser)

  73. oh good grief, apparently i did need to stencil it on his forehead. weak.

    god, why do some people even bother talking to other people at all, when they’re clearly already 90% just having conversations with the voices in their heads anyway? why not just go the whole route and make up the annoyed reactions as well? why bother with real live people? i’m sure we all sound the same to him anyway.

    “mmMMMMMmmm. Attention.”

    personally i would’ve stopped allowing someone like this to post at my place at all. god, that shit is tiresome. i mean, sure, it’s mildly entertaining when someone -insists- on being treated like a human piñata for a little while, but it gets old real fast, for me anyway.

  74. Sorry to be such a trouble. 😦

    When Natalia discusses male child molestation, I agree it is a shame and ask why female child molestation is shown as a healthy event for the victim, as in the VM.
    When she discusses “white male privilege” and the “embedded patriarchy” at Duke I ask how that works considering the lynch mobs that descended on the Lacrosse team. I wonder how it can be that a white male, just about the only racial and gender group that can be racially and gender caricatured and characterized without protest from the “sensitives” can possibly be privileged. It’s a joke.
    Those are legitimate questions that “critical thinkers” seem to not want to ask nor answer.
    When abortion is discussed, I think of Planned Parenthood and the racial eugenics mission that Margaret Sanger, its founder, launched and wonder why critical thinkers, who pore through old text looking for subliminal racism can’t find it in front of their eyes.
    I look at Choice for Women/No Choice for Men and wonder why womens rights groups claim to be about equality, instead of power and privilege.
    And as you’ve noticed, I’m not much concerned about what people, who I have little respect for anyway, have to say or troll about me.
    And as for how trite and passe you find the term “vulgarity” to be, I’m laughing.
    I could quote any number of comments made here (or elsewhere) and insert black, gay, or women and I bet you would be the first to call them vulgar as well as racist, sexist and anti-gay.

  75. ok, mikey, you’ve listed your pet peeves. It all sounds terribly depressing, really. I think you should start drinking and get yourself a nice little heroin habit. I think you’d be a much happier person.

    Er, I mean troll.

  76. Yeah right, Mikey. You need to do a little research, meep. For one, PBA makes up only around 1.4% of all abortions, and for another, “doctors” saying its mother’s remorse isn’t proof. Late-term abortion happens for a variety of reasons, and the primary reason given is due to health concerns.

    And as to being a phony, sure bud. You can think I’m as phony as can be, but honestly, the Holden Caulfield schtick isn’t going to win the argument. Evidence might, but then, all of it’s against you.

  77. And psst Mike…men can’t get pregnant. Just to let you know.

    I understand the two neurons rarely fire for you, but work hard, take your vitamins, and attempt to read on occasion, then maybe you’ll at least be able to grasp that little factoid.

  78. And honestly? The real asinine thing is the fact that there actually is anti-Catholic bigotry wherein people call for and work towards the elimination of Catholics. The Shankill Butchers being a good example.

    But along come Donhue and mikey here, co-opting the term and labeling all disagreement as bigotry and flat-out lying about the reasoning behind said disagreement. For what purpose, I think I know. To criticize the Church’s stance on abortion and homosexuality, one must dissent, and labeling all dissent as bigotry makes it easy to further force people to go along with the demands of Catholicism, namely that women are not people in their own right, but subservient to men, the state, and religion.

    Even more ludicrous, they’ll insinuate that someone using profanity against one person of the Catholic faith for his repeated abuses and bigotries is tantamount to bigotry as well. You know, I made that post when I was angry. I don’t call for violence against Donohue, I don’t call for the destruction of Catholicism, and I don’t paint all Catholics with the same criticism. And yet, I’m an Anti-Catholic bigot who wants to see millions of people, of whom my mother, the rest of my family on my mother’s side, many of my friends and their families, etc are a part, dead or worse. And this is all because I called Donohue a couple of harmless names and said that, by his own religion’s measure, I don’t think Donohue will be getting into a non-existent heaven.

    Well fine, mike, make the term meaningless all you want, but, in the end, Donohue will get more sympathy from me (though I’ll probably be vulgar about a lot of things when speaking to him) than I would ever get from him. Or you, it appears.

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