Oh yes, the pro-life crowd sure loves life. And they love irony so much they even killed the doctor as he was going to church.
WHEN are we going to start recognizing this brand of pro-forced-pregnancy fanaticism as DOMESTIC TERRORISM?
Because this is exactly what it is – and this tragedy in Kansas was waiting to happen for a while now.
Anyone who pops up here to defend forced pregnancy in any form is going to have the full force of my vitriol unleashed on them, so you have been warned.
ETA Please see Cara at Feministe for more.
ETA2 Forced pregnancy enthusiasts and whey-faced gits known as “Operation Rescue” are trying to wash their hands of Dr. Tiller’s murder. In the meantime, their sidebar calls him “America’s Doctor of Death.” Here is a nice screen capture for your viewing displeasure:
Natalia A. 
I am glad you screen capped that because I was unable to get the page to open. I kept getting a “does not exist” error.
*shrugs*
RIP Dr. Tiller. You deserve to rest.
So sad. Ugh.
Hi, I’m a self-righteous misogynist who didn’t heed the warning in this post. I’m “pro-life” – but only when it suits me. I’m perfectly willing to throw my own principles out the window, for as long as they apply to actual human beings. This is why I piously celebrate George Tiller’s killer. I am completely misinformed and ignorant as to why late-term abortion is performed, but educating myself would be too taxing on my brain. In my spare time, I enjoy long walks on the beach and employing semantics to essentially call women who don’t agree with me sluts and whores.
I’m already cringing at the ugly triumphalism that is sure to abound on Internet message boards and blog posts/comments, particularly from people calling themselves Christians. One message board and I’ve had my fill already. It underlines for me the truth of my primary theory on human nature–Donald Miller’s “lifeboat theory”, outlined reasonably well here:
http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/donald-millers-lifeboat-theory/
Moments like this are a great opportunity for people to react in a way that makes them feel like they are better than other people, perhaps a whole group of people at once! It’s a great day in the lifeboat for clawing your way up the social heirarchy, kiddos.
I just don’t get it, do I? I showed up to troll a website after reading an entry which specifically said that the author will have no patience for trolls. Now I’m back, angrily demanding to know why my comments praising a killer and slut-shaming women are being replaced by a derisive parody. I’m forced to conclude that I’m a tool who doesn’t understand that he wore out his welcome when he first tried to post here. Why won’t I GO AWAY? I’ve no idea.
Sorry for typoes caused by my outrage.
P.S. Typos are the least of my problems.
“Oh yes, the pro-life crowd sure loves life.”
Please don’t paint us all with the same brush. I don’t consider all feminists or pro-choicers to be around the same campfire.
Rootie, you’re right, I shouldn’t paint people with the same brush (and I know many pro-lifers who are genuinely horrified by this news). But I don’t think one can deny that the painting of Tiller as “America’s Doctor Death,” which was done by virtually all mainstream pro-life groups in the country, encouraged his killer. Wild misinformation, the portrayal of Tiller as a cackling, modern-day Jack the Ripper who ripped poor babies to shreds with a maniacal grin on his face – all of it lead to this disaster.
I think it’s terrorism, pure and simple. If a Muslim had done this, we’d be shipping him and everyone he hung out with to Guantanamo. As it stands, I don’t believe pro-life organizations get to wash their hands of this.
We’re not all so vocal, I guess. Pro choice organizations portraying all Christians as misogynists and woman haters isn’t so different…
The 1 prolife organization I belong to is quiet, and under the media radar. Our support leans toward women who have had abortions, and need help afterward, and toward women who have chosen to have their babies and need help finding adoptive homes for them. We are Christian, yet we do not condemn nor attempt to convert women who’ve had abortions. Like I said, don’t use 1 paintbrush for all of us.
Are all Muslims terrorists? Are there Muslims who look with horror on terrorists, and condemn them as heretics? Are all Christians such?
“isn’t so different…”
aren’t so different…sorry…only 1 cup of coffee so far.
Rootie, I’m a Christian myself, so I don’t generalize about Christians on the whole (even though I think most Christians, like most Muslims and religious people in general suck at their faith – but that’s just what you get when human beings try to align themselves with the divine, it’s perfectly natural).
I do believe that the pro-life movement is a joke. This doesn’t mean that I don’t respect individual pro-life people – you’re one of them, and some priests I know I think do great work as well, especially with trafficking victims. But the movement on the whole? Even when you strip all of the hateful rhetoric away, its stated goals are forced pregnancy. Not helping out women who’ve had abortion and are dealing with issues, or else women who need homes for their kids.
I think you’re generalizing based on what you read/hear in the media, and we all know how objective they are. When that’s where the information comes from, what else is one to do? I do it, too.
Well, I also work in the media, and I do interact with people on a regular basis to talk about women’s issues. I think that “pro-life” is a red herring – it’s “pro-forced pregnancy.” This doesn’t mean that some folks don’t have compassion, or that they don’t care about alternative means, but when I read announcements for “special prayer services for women who have murdered their children in the womb” on the doors of the church I visit, I have to laugh. (Not at the women who are being told that they are murderers – especially since many people in Ukraine have trouble starting families due to financial problems; I think that aborting a genuinely wanted pregnancy is no joke)
It’s so transparent. Sure the priests might think they’re doing God’s work, but for the central church leadership – it’s always been an issue of demographics and socio-political status. More unwanted pregnancies? More parishioners. And if they’re unwanted, it probably means they’re poor and miserable too. Which works out great for the powers that be, because the poor and miserable don’t question leadership a whole lot.
When you say pro forced pregnancy, it sounds as if all pregnant women are forced into it. It’s semantics.
It’s like saying “anti choice” or “anti life”. How things are worded put the spin on it. In my experience, media is all about the spin, how to best twist a phrase to promote an agenda. Some of us really do believe that a life is a life, no matter how young, and money isn’t a factor. I realize women have the right to make a choice regarding their pregnancy, I also believe other people have a right to vocally disapprove. I guess I trust the media as much as you trust organized religion.
But that’s it exactly! I think that anti-abortion crusades don’t just hurt women who want them, they hurt parents!
Let’s say a woman in a country that doesn’t allow abortion (the Dominican Republic’s abhorrent new laws come to mind) has a baby. Was her choice to have this baby in any way meaningful as per her status as a member of society? No. The minute she got pregnant, the state made its decision for her. Even if she’s always wanted this child – she is herself treated like a child, reduced to her reproductive function because she cannot make a different choice. Such laws are demeaning not only to women who wish to end their pregnancies, they are demeaning to women who want to have kids.
That’s what forced pregnancy means to me, and I think it’s utter bollocks. I think people should want their children if they have them, and I think they should have a meaningful choice in the matter.
Personally, it means a lot to me that my parents chose to have me once they realized my mom was pregnant. No one twisted their arm or said that they had to.
I recognize that some pregnancies happen as a result of rape or incest, and as such, are traumatic and can be psychologically harmful to the woman. I also know that I can’t speak to laws in other countries. However, here in the USA, how many sexually active women are there who are not aware that sex can result in pregnancy? Have these women never heard of condoms, birth control pills, a diaphragm? It is possible to have sex while minimizing the risk of pregnancy. I realize that no form of birth control (beside abstinence) is 100% effective. I have a child (my 3rd) who is proof of that. Women want to be in control of their own reproductive freedom. I get that. I still maintain that life begins at conception, and should be protected. Let the woman do as she chooses, until that life is there. Then it becomes her responsibility to protect. Don’t want to get pregnant? Don’t have sex. Want to have sex? Accept the risk and responsibility that comes with it. Is your pregnancy a result of rape or incest? Then I understand the need for an abortion. Is it because of carelessness or an “Oh, it won’t ever happen to me” psychological immaturity? Grow up and accept responsibility for your behavior. Giving a woman carte blanche to abort an inconveniency is…I dunno…I don’t really have a word for it, but I do have a huge problem with it. It all boils down, really, to the concept of when life begins, and is it worth protecting.
The child I did not choose to have, who was conceived while I was on oral contraceptives, is as much my own as the other 3. Maybe even more so, somehow. The child I aborted when I was 19, I still wonder who I was and what I was thinking when I did that. That baby was nothing more or less than an inconvenience to me at that time. Later, after the birth of my oldest, I realized that the only difference between the two was the matter of timing. That really, really threw me for a loop. It is a big part of why I see things the way I do. I do not believe my life would have been ruined if I’d had that baby. My husband maintains he would have married me and raised the child as if it were his own, and knowing his character, I believe him. I am fortunate, I know. I realize not all women with children have this luxury. That does not negate my belief that life begins at conception and should be protected as much as a life that has been born into the world. It is a testament to the character of our culture that we value the lives of our children so little.
Honestly, Natalia, I respect your opinion, and believe firmly in your right to have it. I just don’t agree with it.
I respect your opinion too, Rootie. I just don’t see it that way. For me, it’s no less of an issue than taking a bud off a branch. It’s preventing potential life, not actual life.
This argument gets trotted out a lot, but I believe it – if I’m dying and need a kidney does the government have the right to force someone else to give me a kidney? I don’t think so. I think it’s the same with asking women to incubate potential life. I just don’t see it as a moral argument at all.
Because sex is not just about reproduction – it’s about bonding as well – it seems illogical to me to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.
I know many women who regret their abortions, but it’s more to life circumstance than anything – “I really wanted it, but my [abusive jerk of a] husband said he would leave or else beat me until I miscarried.” “I really wanted it, but my mother was dying at the time and no one else was around to see her off.” I don’t think it’s a choice that most people take lightly, but I also don’t believe in nobly suffering through it if you don’t want to have it.
I also have a lot of respect for women who say “I aborted it, and I don’t regret doing it.” I don’t think these women should be pressed and prodded with questions such as “but don’t you REALLY feel bad about it underneath?”
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
It’s a God awful small afair, to the girl with the mousey hair.. (Where is David Bowie when I need him.. ?) Is there life on Mars? Venus perhaps…
I’m sorry I couldn’t resist.
I respect your views on this too Natalia, but I think by any resonable scientific definition it would be considered life, not just potential life.
I came to my views on this when I was 16. A very long time ago… But still, I don’t feel like I should impose my viewpoints on others in the form of legislation.
Sudy has a great post up, btw, recommended reading for everyone:
http://myecdysis.blogspot.com/2009/06/relationship-pregnancy-abortion-faith.html
Personally I’d probably agree that it’s “life” even in utero. I still think it’s a decision that’s ultimately up to the pregnant woman first; it’s not -individual- life before viability outside the womb at the very least, and yeah, I think the health and well-being of the mother (including psychological) comes first, and it’s not up to anyone else to make that decision for her. That also goes for women who won’t personally have an abortion, found it traumatic or abhorrent, etc.
but yeah, I’m also with Sudy in that I don’t think either “side” sufficiently addresses a lot of the fundamental underlying issues. I ID as “pro-choice” because yeah, I do think that’s a starting point. But it isn’t enough.
and I have a visceral loathing of Operation Rescue and the fuckers who’ve been defending them and the Tiller murder. and yeah, they’re out there in full force; not everyone, no, but they’ve been flooding Twitter and other venues if you look. got into a couple short arguments with people; one was civil enough, with a guy who–anyway, I left it alone eventually. The other was with this young girl who, when I sent her the link of womens’ testimonies about how Tiller saved their lives, how those late-term abortions were of -wanted- children who were dying and the mother was in medical extremis. Her reply: “I find that very hard to believe. The parents should have kept it in their pants.” I just wrote something like @_@ I’ll pray for you. wtf.
and I don’t even think that one was an OR supporter or even anti (early) abortion as such; she’d just read all the “Tiller Killer” crap and decided he deserved to die, she has no sympathy, even though it was “sad” for his family.